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Avital 4X03 and factory alarm


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blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 08, 2015 at 7:39 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Hey guys, been a long time since I posted here, glad to be back! To start off I have recently bought a 2007 Envoy Denali and had a remote starter installed and got a couple of problems. First off let me tell you what I have installed, the remote start system is a Avital, and shows on the module the model is 4X03 so I'm not sure exactly which one it is, along with a DBall2 bypass module (not sure on firmware either). The problem I have is that when I start it with the remote the factory alarm will start to go off, and it does not do this every time it seems like if it sits long enough it will do it. I took it back to the guy that installed it and he could not find anything wrong with it, of course the alarm would not go off when he tried it.
The other issue is when I press the button to start it, it starts about a second later, very fast. The other 3 remote starters I have had it would take 3-4 seconds until it started, I thought that maybe this would have something to do with the alarm going off? This is what I do know so far, the Lt/G and G/W wires (H1-1 and 2) are NOT connected to anything, not sure if they need to be or not. Also a wiring guide that I found on the internet said that if you don't have both of the acc wires connected then it will start fast like this, it does start every time but just that it sets the alarm off at times. Both of the acc wires (orange and brown) are connected but what the installer did was connect the orange from the remote module to the orange on the ignition harness, then jumped a wire from there to the brown, a bit of a cheat IMO. Could this be my issue?, I know this module does have a programmable output for heavy gauge wire so it does have a relay built in to the unit, would hooking this up to acc2 fix my problems? That's as far as I have got so far, feel free to ask any questions and I will check more in to what I need too, thanks a lot!
davep. 
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 08, 2015 at 8:03 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote davep.

I'm going to guess that the factory alarm is going off when the ignition comes on and "wakes up" the BCM. This is why it will only do it after a period of time. GM BCM's typically need 15 minutes or so with no activity before they go to sleep. I think the installer is going to have to connect the H1 dis-arm to the LH door key dis-arm wire to solve this.  I see a couple of other things that may be contributing to the "fast start" deal that you may be able to resolve on your own:

Avital has a large gauge pnk/wht wire that can be programmed as either Accessory or Ignition configuration.

The Envoy has two IGN wires. One large pnk, and a smaller white. Both must be powered as ignitions. Normally, installers use the pnlkwht  Avital for the wht Ign2.

The Envoy orange wire is the HVAC circuit. It is only hot in run, but is treated as an accy wire by the Avital. The Avital orange wire is an accy output.

So far, so good. As long as the IGN2 white wire is powered by the pink/wht.

The "jumper" between the brown and orange Envoy wires is BS. That's not the way to do it for several reasons. "Fix" it this way:

Use a relay, wired as follows:.

#30 to +12V. (You can tap one of the Avital red wires, AFTER the fuse).

#87 to Envoy Brown wire.

#85 to +12V, hot at all times. Use same source as you did for #30

#86 to Avital orange accy relay output. at 4-pin "satellite harness".

So check these 2 things: That the white ign wire is powered as an IGN, and fix the jumper with a relay. And we'll go from there.

blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 08, 2015 at 8:11 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Man that was fast!, thanks for the reply Dave. I will check in to it this weekend but may not be able to do the actual wiring until the weekend after, I live in a apartment so no power for soldering, etc. I will certainly see what I can find out and will post back on here, I also agree that the "jumper" wire is BS but that's the way it was done, I will see what I can find out and will post back soon, thanks!
blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 09, 2015 at 5:55 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Thanks Dave, yes what you said about the alarm going off and the "timeout" period makes sense, and I also wondered this myself. You said also I may have to wire H1 to the LH door key dis-arm, I'm assuming you mean the drivers door since it does not have a key for the passenger door, and also do you know if this wire is under the dash somewhere that I can access instead of taking the door panel off? This is something I can do myself and the installer lives in another town so this would be the best option for me, I have lots of soldering experience so no problem there.
Also, is there a way to test the disarm wire with a test light or a DMM?, I have a digital test light not one of those cheap "light bulb" testers but a DMM may be best. I ordered a couple of relays with harnesses last night, I'm assuming the relay you mentioned will need heave gauge wire so I got them with 16 gauge, hope this is sufficient to use, thanks.
davep. 
Gold - Posts: 622
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Joined: May 27, 2011
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 09, 2015 at 10:59 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote davep.

16 ga will be fine for the brown wire relay. There isn't much load on the brown wire circuit.

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I hope someone with experience with this Model like Kreg chimes-in here, and corrects me if I'm wrong. I hate giving erroneous advice, but this is based on some quick research, and my knowledge of GM in general....

I looked in the "Vehicle Wiring" forum at the top of the page. I didn't find a 2007 Envoy, but I found a 2005, and an 07 or 8 Trailblazer. Both entries refrenced a LtGrn dis-arm wire INSIDE the driver's door at the "door module". There are several modules in GM's. They communicate with each other on a common data-bus. So it appears the dis-arm wire is only present in the door because it goes to the door module.

I know little about the bypasses. But I think the bypass can/should put the disarm signal on the data buss.. But I'm not sure.

You indicated you're not working on this straight away. You have some time before you get to it. Wait and see if another peep has better first-hand input. Especially concerning if the bypass should be taking care of the dis-arm, or it needs to be hard wired.

blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 10, 2015 at 5:01 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Thanks, yeah I haven't checked in to it and don't plan on this weekend, and yes I hope someone else that has more experience with this will chime in and put in their thoughts. I still wonder if the alarm goes off because it starts so fast, next weekend I will get the relay installed and go from there, and hopefully at least this will fix the fast start issue I have, I'll keep in touch thanks Dave!
blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 15, 2015 at 7:10 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Another question to you Dave, on this current set up do you know how I can power the heated seats and maybe the rear defroster with the remote? I've read that some units will let you use the auto climate control and when the temps reach a certain one it will turn them on low, or whatever setting you prefer. Also with the rear defroster, this would be handy to have maybe for the aux button on my remote to turn on, I'll be checking on the wiring and getting it done this weekend and again, thanks for your input!
davep. 
Gold - Posts: 622
Gold spacespace
Joined: May 27, 2011
Location: California, United States
Posted: October 15, 2015 at 9:23 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote davep.

blubird302 wrote:
...on this current set up do you know how I can power the heated seats and maybe the rear defroster with the remote? !

The defrost output is H2/1 blue/wht. Menu 2, feature 8 set to "normal" (2 flashes). The output goes low 10 seconds after start, remains low for 10 minuets, then ceases. Use a relay to power the grid directly.

I've never set up a 4x03 with a 4 button remote. Only the single button or no button.  But they way I read it, is after a 1.5 second delay, the aux button triggers the RED / wht H1/3 output for as long as the button is pressed. DEI calls this "validity". I didn't see any options for programming the aux output. There usually aren't for the RED / wht. To use this output for things like seat heaters, etc will take some engineering by .an individual that is familiar with how the Denali seat heater systems work. That's not me.

The 4x03 is a basic add-on R/S, or can also be a stand-alone R/S (one button remote) or R/S and RKE with the 4 button remote. It isn't a very sophisticated unit. It doesn't have the advanced features like programmable outputs, temperature-dependent defog control, etc that the advanced, more expensive DEI offerings have. Fix the issues that you currently have with the install, and use it for the limited functions it is intended to provide. If you wish more, you  probably need to up-grade the unit.

blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 16, 2015 at 5:34 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Thanks Dave, I wish now that I had put more thought and research in to this before I got it, but I'm not going to spend the extra money to install another one, the seats and defrost is not a big deal anyways. I will be getting on the other issues more than likely tomorrow and I will post back here to let you know, thanks.
blubird302 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: February 21, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: October 18, 2015 at 7:40 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote blubird302
Well I got in to it tonight and a few things I want to say. First off I was a bit wizzed to find out that none of the wires are soldered like they are suppose to be, even the heavy gauge wires were not. So what I found out is that the orange wire with the jumper on it, the wire wasn't even connected to the bare of the car, it was wrapped around the insulation so this was crap, I started to solder them but broke the tip on the iron so I will get to it another time. Also I did look like the pnk/wht is hooked up to the white ignition.
Also, the 4 pin satellite harness you talked about hooking the relay up to the orange, well for some reason it doesn't even have the harness connected, the pins are there but no harness or wires so I can't hook the relay up there. The jumper between the orange and brown is still there and with them soldered it still starts quickly, so I'm not sure on that part. It'll be probably a couple weeks before I get back to it, any ideas of another place I can tap the signal for the relay?
After all of this I can say that I won't be taking anything back to this place for wiring jobs, they do tint as well which is done pretty good, but after seeing the wires not soldered, etc... it'll be the last time for me. Thanks Dave for your help and I hope you got some other ideas for the relay.
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