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Wiring PTS System - 3 Ignition Wires, PTT Has 2


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briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 5:04 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
I was given one of those (probably eBay/Amazon) RFID Push to Start kits. Everything seems to look of decent quality, nice heavy gauge wiring, etc.
I have a "spare" car i'm installing it in, just my fun, random project type car so its a perfect guinea pig. Its a 2005 Mercury Grand Marquis GS. (I have appropriate wiring diagrams for it)
Im pretty handy with wiring, (probably not compared to most of you on here) the unit has a handful of wires. All are self explanatory (acc, ignition 1, ignition 2, brake switch, starter, 12v constant, ground, etc)
My issue: the car has 3 ignition wires. PTT unit has 2. So someone might think to just tie two together, and connect it to one of the ignition wires on the unit. I didn't want to try that, and risk burning something up. I decided to use a relay. Upon testing after I wired it all up, its close to being right, but the relay is screwing things up.
Heres what happens: (Its freezing outside, and dark, so i'm not worried about the ignition at the moment, so right now, its gonna be turning the key on to unlock the shift mechanism, and to make the PATS system happy)
(This scenario is just having the key near the ignition which is good enough for the PATS system)
Press the PTT button once, accessories come on as they should. Radio, windows, etc
Press it again, it mimics the key being turned to the "on" position. Gauges come to life, HVAC controls work, etc
Put my foot on the brake and press the button, the starter (for lack of a better term) clicks once, and doesn't start. (Not a PATS issue) (If I press the brake pedal from it being off, it'll turn everything on and then try to start, but do the same random thud/click as if the starter wanted to engage but didn't)
Then, pressing the brake pedal, and pushing the button again turns the system off. Some of my idiot lights on the gauges stay on, as well as something under the dash thats barely audible. IF I unplug that relay, it all turns off, and things are normal. If I put the key in the ignition, and turn it to "ON" and then use the PTT to start it, it works flawlessly. I can take the key out and everything is working. However, when I turn it off, I once again have to pull that relay. The relay is working as it should, but it seems like its staying on when it should turn off, I think? If I start it with JUST the key, I get the same problem with the idiot lights staying on and have to pull the relay
Lets use random wires for example.
Ignition 1: blue
Ignition 2: red
Ignition 3: green
PTT Ignition 1 output: orange
PTT Ignition 2 output: yellow
I have:
Output 1 orange, connected to ignition 1 blue
Output 2 yellow, connected to relay input trigger AND ignition 2 red
Relay output connected to ignition 3 green
Is this not the way it should have been done? Can I not wire it up in a way to work with my car? Should I just try connecting both ignition wires to ignition 2 output on the PTT?
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
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Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
You 3rd IGN relay can also be turned on by the cars 2nd IGN without the RFID PTS system being engaged. Turn this using two
relays to isolate the ignition wires completely :
Wiring PTS System - 3 Ignition Wires, PTT Has 2 -- posted image.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 6:11 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
Ok, that makes definite sense. Thats what I was thinking, but for some reason couldn't put it in words!
Now im a bit lost. I understand most of it, but on your diagram in the left bottom, is that my ignition, OR is that the PTT system ignition 2 output?
Im *assuming* this is the PTT, ignition output 2 is the "trigger" for both relays input 86?
Thanks a TON!
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 6:17 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
Exactly correct, in the lower left corner is the add on system, similar to your PTT Yellow wire in your post.
This diagram is from a ReadyRemote install guide. They show how to create a 3rd ignition output using the
ReadyRemotes 2nd IGN output as the relay control. It does use another relay to keep a 2nd IGN output. If
your PTT system had an output called (-) 200mA Ignition or something like that, you could use it and just
one relay to create IGN3.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 7:00 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
Okay, so your diagram fixed that issue I was having. Thanks a TON! Ive never dealt with a "dual" relay setup, now it makes perfect sense.
Now my issue is, I get no crank. I get a thud as if it was going to crank, accessories shut off, but wont actually crank and start (Not a PATS issue) Im getting 12v out from the starter output. (My starter wire is a very small gauge, so its just a trigger wire, not a high-amp wire)
IF I put my key in the ignition, and turn it to "on" and then run the PTT, it cranks just fine.
Any ideas here? Im racking my brain, and can't figure this one out. Wiring is all correct according to the wiring diagram, and the relays are correct.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 7:10 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
Im wondering if it has to do with two wires I didn't touch in the harness. I believe they're both black with a pink stripe. Could this be the system that tells the vehicle its in park or neutral and won't crank unless it is?
Every diagram I pull, doesn't mention these wires. Thats about the only feasible thing I can think of. Any assistance with bypassing that system, or getting it to function as intended with the PTT? This unit has no extra outputs or anything.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 7:34 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
Think we need to see the install guide for the PTT system and your current connections.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 7:51 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
The install guide is truly wiz-poor. It basically shows the wire colors and functions.
I will try to upload a copy of it soon. But it works perfect, when my key is turned on.
Im almost positive its got something to do with the neutral safety switch, but I cannot find any diagrams on it. None of the remote start wire diagram websites mention those two extra wires in my ignition harness plug.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
kreg357 
Platinum - Posts: 7,781
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 30, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 7:59 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote kreg357
You could try to hot wire the car. It would require a few fused jumper wires. Apply power to all IGN type wires, tape key to ignition cylinder and apply +12V to the Starter wire to crank the engine. If that works, then those extra wires are un-necessary. The Accessory type wire(s) are not needed but could be powered too.
Soldering is fun!
briandye 
Member - Posts: 24
Member spacespace
Joined: January 20, 2013
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: November 19, 2017 at 8:27 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote briandye
That’s exactly what this module is doing.
Ignition 1, 2, 3 wires, 1 accessory, 1 12v constant, 1 brake pedal switch feed and 1 ground.
Someone on the Crown Vic group said that I need to try grounding the starter relay because the non-P71 ground goes through the PCM. Grounding it will disable PATS (which is fine by me) but I’m having trouble figuring out how I’m supposed to figure that wire out, the fuse box is under my hood, with one large wire loom coming out of it.
2006 Explorer XLT
2009 Ford Fusion SEL
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