Weird relay problem

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Teken

Gold - Posts: 1,492

Joined: August 04, 2002

Location: Aruba

Posted: November 12, 2003 at 4:43 PM / IP Logged

Brian,

This does not directly answer your current Q. But will provide you with some insight.

The basic Bosch SPDT relay requires a *pick up voltage* of aprox. 9.0 VDC. The pick up voltage is the level at which the contacts will switch over.

The level at which a relay coil returns to its at rest position is called the *drop out voltage* Normally a relay is designed to not drop out untill a minimum of 85% of the rated voltage.

Given your current measurements provided, the unit is not sending out the required level of voltage to pick up the and close the contacts.

I would suggest that you have the unit inspected.

Regards

EVIL Teken...

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 12, 2003 at 5:17 PM / IP Logged

Thanks Teken, kind of what I was thinking but I wasn't sure whether I should see a full 12V between a powered 12V wire in the harness and the negative trigger.

If anyone knows how easy/hard it is to deal with DEI warranty I'd like to hear. I don't want to go to an installer, have the unit pulled, sent to DEI.. have them take 2 weeks, send it back.... If they swap units with me so that I'm not without a remote start hat's great, otherwise I'm leaning towards just buying a new brain.

Brian

Teken

Gold - Posts: 1,492

Joined: August 04, 2002

Location: Aruba

Posted: November 12, 2003 at 5:37 PM / IP Logged

Brian,

Just as a simple check, I would ask you to take the *trigger* wire that comes off of the alarm system that you believe is giving you the problem.

And measure the voltage that is there, as well as the current.

In your previous posting, you indicated a voltage drop of only 0.56 VDC on terminal 85 & 86 of the coil.

I would ask you to simply connect the two sides again, and measure what the voltage is coming off of the unit, without any other connections.

This will give you an idea as to what is coming off of the alarm CPU trigger wire. Obviously you need to adhere to the correct polarity of the wires.

ie. If the alarm CPU is sending out a negative (-12 VDC) @-150 mA, than you need to ensure that the other side is properly polarized.

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

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Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 12, 2003 at 8:19 PM / IP Logged

How about what type of car do you have? What type of meter are you using? Have you checked the fuse on the white wire, parking light output of the dei module? Have you messed with any of the internal jumpers on the module, specifically one that changes the polarity of the parking light output? Have you tried to ground pin 85 of the relay, the one that doesn't measure +12V, and see if the lights turn on? Have checked to see if the white wire's pin didn't become disconnected from the module? As far as the diagram's on the site, they are only one way of wiring it, there are many. Also as far as warranty from DEI, they are cool about it. You are kidding yourself at two weeks, try around 2 months.

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 8:13 AM / IP Logged

1995 Cutlass Supreme.

Triplett 2002 (Ohio made, DMM, I've used it for many things works correctly)

No fuse was installed on the parking light wire.

No jumpers moved or programming done. It was working Sunday evening, then an hour later I went to use it again, nothing.

Nothing disconnected.

Measurement between ground and white wire off DEI brain was -0.58 volts this morning. (Sorry I missed the - sign in an earlier post, it is negative.)

No way am I parting with my remote start in this cold weather for 2 months. So I either I buy another brain or I was thinking, does anyone make a relay that only requires a very small voltage to trigger it? Small, like -0.58 volts? ;-)

Thanks for your suggestions Auex.

auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 3:08 PM / IP Logged

Try this, disconnect the parking light output/white wire from the relay. Then remote start the car. Take your com/black lead from your multimeter and put it on the white wire coming from the module. Then take your red lead and hold it to constant +12V. Tell us what the reading is while the vehicle is remote started.

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 3:12 PM / IP Logged

I have done this already. 13V with engine running.

auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 3:22 PM / IP Logged

Ok, if you are getting a reading of 13V off of the parking light output when the remote start is on means that the output is working, it is sending a ground out to the relay. Have you tried to ground the relay pin that this wire goes to and see if the relay clicks over and the lights turn on?

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

auex

Platinum - Posts: 5,041

Joined: December 23, 2002

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 3:25 PM / IP Logged

For some reason it will not let me edit my post. Just an explanation. If your meter is reading +13V when the R/S is active, with the black lead on the parking light wire from the module and the red lead on a constant +12v, this means that the module is sending out a ground to the relay. Basically if the wire has 0V when the R/S module off and +12V when the R/S module is on then the module should be working.

Certified Security Specialist

Always check info with a digital multimeter.

I promise to be good.

Tell Darwin I sent you.

I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 13, 2003 at 6:13 PM / IP Logged

auex

so, i went and cut the wire that ought to trigger the relay and as soon as i touch it to ground, lights come on. then i connected my dmm in series with the wire to measure current. only 6mA. i bet this is the problem. although i have full voltage almost no current coming out of brain. according to the manual it ought to put out 200mA.

so i looked in the manual, found a 3rd accessory output, also - and 200mA. connected that to the relay and lights are working again. of course now they come on as soon as the remote start sequence is triggered instead of after the engine is known to be running but it's better than nothing. maybe i'll find a new brain on Ebay cheap.

thanks for your help in troubleshooting this!!

brian

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