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Not happy w/new sound


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samohtm 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: June 28, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 28, 2004 at 3:21 PM / IP Logged  

I recently had a system installed in my 2000 Accord Coupe and all sounds good until I push the volume up and the mids seem shreeky and highs aren't there.  I have the following:Alpine 7893, JL 300/4, JL500/1 JL12W3v2, Pioneer 3way in doors & Pioneers 3way in rear deck.

I initially bought the Alpine to play CD-r's in my car, than I upgraded stock speakers. I then got a wild hair to add some more goodies after being out of this car audio game for many years (since the 80's). There are times when I like to listen to my music at very high volumes just like when I am sitting in my easy chair at home.

After spending approx. 2 days reading I see I should probably go to component speakers up front with nothing in the rear deck.  I don't really care for the kick panal idea but will if if I have to.  I don't want to say money does not matter but am willing to part with some if I am able to push the volume up and have smooth highs without it sounding like a whining siren. I am also thinking of going to the JL10W7 as well.

I will take any thoughts or guidence you car gurus have. Just want to smile while I crank it.

Thanks in advance,

Mike

kfr01 
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Posted: June 28, 2004 at 3:30 PM / IP Logged  

Well Mike, it sound like you have a great start.  You have some good clean amps, a quality head unit, and your bass is probably solid with the JL.

Depending on how the installer set your system up, you might be able to get better quality sound just by changing some settings.

Question 1:  What size are your pioneer 3-way speakers in the doors and deck? 

Question 2:  Do you have high pass crossovers on the 3-way speakers?  If not, you should.  If you send a full range signal to midrange speakers they'll bottom out and distort if pushed.  You'll be able to push them much harder without breaking up if they are properly crossed over. 
Question 3:  Did they set your gains correctly?  If your head unit or amps are clipping it will make your speakers sound like sh*t and it isn't your speaker's fault. 
Question 4:  Did they install the speaker right against the door metal?  Did they get a good seal?  Cancelation and vibration from a quick and dirty install can harm output and sound quality too.

But yeah... I've had a few different installs over the years and have been most happy with quality components up front and a single subwoofer in back.

Cheers, kfr

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
samohtm 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: June 28, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 28, 2004 at 3:43 PM / IP Logged  

Thanks for the reply kfr,

Doors are 6.5", rears are 6x9. The 300/4 has the high pass crossovers built into the amp and are adjustable I believe? They did set the gains correctly and the system sounds good until I want to start squeezing up the dial in the mid 30's, nothing clipping its just not sound ing good in the mids and highs, I have the treble backed down to -7maxxed and still to high sometimes.  I installed the speakers myself several weeks prior to my wild hair with the JL stuff, yea right against the doors stock location.

I tinkered with the amp gains, crossovers etc. this wekend when I grew frustrated.  Tweaking is not out of my realm and am always happy to do so.  This sometimes become a bad habbit like the home stereo Lots of time and money in that one.

I think it may just be that the old school though os putting in Pioneer was okay and could have been if I decided not to do the other stuff.  However, I made the leap and I am going to follow through making sure I am smilling while the knob is turned to the right...

Thanks,

Mike

kfr01 
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Posted: June 28, 2004 at 4:30 PM / IP Logged  

Well, if you don't care for the kick panel idea and your 6.5" drivers are fairly low and forward in the door I feel that you can still get good imaging from a component setup in the door location.  You can either get a component set where you can mount the tweeter into the speaker like a coax driver and direct the angle up or you can mount the tweeter separately and point it up at your ears.  I use the a coax setup on the my Mb Quart's pointed up at my ears.  

It is dangerous when a home stereo buff gets into car audio (I know, because I'm one myself) because it becomes more complex to get that home stereo quality in the car.  

So describe what you don't like about the sound.  The highs are too bright and screaming and the mids are shreeky?  You're looking for smoother treble and midrange and tighter bass?

Question:   Are there any factory speakers still hooked up in the dash or anywhere else?

Cheers, kfr

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: June 28, 2004 at 4:44 PM / IP Logged  
And if I may add my two cents in here, what I believe you are hearing is simply one of the limitations of Pioneer speakers, and it's one of the reasons I never recomend them.  They tend to be harsh and get really shrill at higher volumes.  They have bad cone break-up at high mids, they lose mid-bass and the tweeters they use are very harsh and brittle to my ears.  I hate to say it but I'll bet what you need to do is get rid of those speakers and get a good set in there.  Try a front main set from Focal, MB Quart, Eclipse, JBL, Nakamichi, Memphis, Adire, CDT, JL, Boston Acoustics, Diamond, Alpine, Infinity Kappa, Polk, Blaupunkt... almost anything will sound better than Pioneer (or Sony, Kenwood, etc.) in my opinion.
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chevyman26 
Copper - Posts: 227
Copper spacespace
Joined: April 14, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 28, 2004 at 5:00 PM / IP Logged  

I agree with DYohn on the limitations of the Pioneers. I had one set and they were exactly as described above-very harsh and shreeky. Get some better speakers. Also- you say when you start pushing the volume to the mid 30s? 35 is the max volume on this hu (I have the same one). Are you sure the hu isn't clipping?

One other thing- I assume you used the pre-outs from the hu for the amps- have you shut off the internal amp in the hu? Doing this will give yu better SQ through the pre-outs.

My $.02

You'd better get me out of this lord... or else you'll have me to deal with. -- Hunter S. Thompson "F.A.L.I.L.V."
samohtm 
Member - Posts: 13
Member spacespace
Joined: June 28, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 28, 2004 at 7:14 PM / IP Logged  

Thnaks for all of the replies,

I guess if I have to do the kick panel to get a premium sound that is what I will do.  Is it better to have the local installe fab these with glass or just buy the Q-Logic ones?  I did not knoe the HU only went to 35 on max volume, I have had it to 33,34 and that is it.  The sound from the Pioneer is as describbed in earlier response SHREEKY, damn near gives me a headach.  The HU amplifier is turned off using the pre-outs to the JL amps.

Would it be wise to just spend the money on the front end of the apeakers oe should I add some filler to the back deck as well.  I thought by removing the back deck speakers and leaving stock grill on it might aleaviate some presure from the sub as well as a little added sound.  I will be having the installer do all of this work on the front-end of the system as well as ask for an hour of his time to help me tweak the settings on the amps. until I am more comforatable doing it myself.

By doing the front kick panals will I get good imaging from these sitting that far back by the fire-wall or should I try and do the door speakers with Tweets up front in the corners where there is a fake speaker location?

Keep the comments suggestions comming, I do appriciate your feedback.  Any need to change the HU, I really do not care for all the bells and whistles on it...

Mike

kfr01 
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Posted: June 28, 2004 at 7:44 PM / IP Logged  

Try to keep the tweeter as close to the midrange driver as possible.  And you don't have to do a kick panel to get premium sound.  If you had your head unit to 33 or 34 out of 35 there is a good chance it is clipping.

Work on the rears last.  Taking the 6x9's out of the rears helped some bass come through to my cabin.  I don't miss the rear fill at all.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: June 29, 2004 at 10:26 AM / IP Logged  
Put a nice set of high quality 6.5" coaxials in the doors and CAN those Pioneers.  And yes, if you had the Alpine head up past 30 it is most likely clipping the pre-amps.
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$uperflame$ 
Member - Posts: 45
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: June 29, 2004 at 11:11 AM / IP Logged  
i would go wirh pioneer  component  speackers in the doors and the pioneer 4 or 5 ways in the deck, you wount ever get great sound power out of your speakers running off your head , and them pioneer 69 4 and 5 ways can handdle up to 450 watts per speaker . i run the 4ways with with a 500watts RF amp and i can turn it wall the way up with no loss of SQ
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