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’97 Nissan Maxima, RF310 AutoPage


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dusty21271 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 09, 2004 at 3:05 PM / IP Logged  
The car has a high performance intake and had an RF310 AutoPage alarminstalled last year.
In late April (of '04) the car was "hard starting" - usually in themorning after sitting all night - and when finally started huge puffs ofwhite smoke would come out of the exhaust. Finally wouldn't start at alland had towed to shop.
Shop said two of the fuel injectors were stuck wide open and major amountsof fuel were pumping through the system. Replaced the two fuel injectors(to the tune of $400). Picked the car up on a Wed. evening. Seemed tostart and run fine. Next morning the car wouldn't start. Went to work,came home, started the car (which started with that "hard start" again). Called the shop - told them the deal. They said it was probably due toexcess fuel in the system and once it dried out it would be fine. Startedthe car the next day (Fri). Drove it all that day. Got home that night(barely) car parked and died. No more starting at all.
Back to the shop. Shop now saying that car isn't sparking at all whentrying to start. Checked all six ignition switches and NONE sparked whichled them to look elsewhere.
After 2 weeks of "searching", the shop came to the conclusion thatwhomever installed the car alarm, wired in to about half of the wiresgoing into the computer and either fried the wiring system and/or friedthe computer.
Shop replaced the computer which did NOTHING. Now the shop is saying ithas to go to an "electrical" specialist to deal with the wiring.
This has been darn near 3 months now. I'm seriously considering justtaking it to a Nissan dealer, but don't want to 'cause I know they'regonna try to rob me blind for anything they can.
Any thoughts, comments, suggestions would be MOST appreciated!!!
Dusty
defective 
Silver - Posts: 642
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 20, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: July 09, 2004 at 8:42 PM / IP Logged  
ouch....... that kinda sux.... i would temporarily remove the alarm so the shop has nothing to complain about...  I don't doubt that the alarm caused the issue, these are not very simple cars.  Get your problem fixed, then take it to a well established installer, find a thirty year old veteran. (not saying young people aren't smart, just that old guys are more commonly experienced, i'm only 21 but have the experience of a 30 year old.)
jimmeezgolfvr6 
Silver - Posts: 258
Silver spacespace
Joined: March 10, 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: July 10, 2004 at 5:34 AM / IP Logged  
2 possibilities.....either your shop is telling the truth and whoever installed the alarm has indeed made a big mess of things by connecting many wires to the car's computer,
...or....
maybe they're full of sh*t!!
i've had a look at the autopage website to look at the features of the rf310. it appears to be a fairly basic alarm with features that could describe an entry model alarm for just about any brand. i have a tough time justifying any need for the installer to connect wires to the car's ecu. to do so would certainly turn an otherwise simple job into one that's 5 times more complicated and time consuming.
although i'm not able to diagnose your car's problem, it really doesn't sound like it's related to the alarm....especially if you've been using it without problems for nearly a year.
btw, puffs of white smoke tend to indicate head gasket problems. please don't quote me on that though. good luck!
97gss 
Copper - Posts: 235
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 12, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 10, 2004 at 7:28 AM / IP Logged  
I'm with jimmeezgolfvr6 on that one.  If the alarm has been fine all this time then it's probably something engine related.  The white smoke could be the headgasket but don't quote me on that either.  I'd have a compression test done and go from there.
Lurkin 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: December 26, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: July 10, 2004 at 9:24 AM / IP Logged  
check the water make sure there is no oil in it, and check the oil make sure there is no water in it. it will look like melted chocolate ice cream if there is. check your breather cap(where you fill it with oil) too see if any milky residue there.
dusty21271 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 13, 2004 at 11:02 AM / IP Logged  

The white smoke was dealt with when they replaced the fuel injectors, so that is no longer a problem.  Head gaskets were checked, oil was checked, everything engine related was checked.

It all seems to be leading back to the wiring.  I agree with jimmeezgolfvr6, as does my mechanic, that we can't figure out why the alarm installers would have wired into about half of the main wiring into the computer. 

I'm thinking I should have the alarm taken out, but who should do that?  The alarm place that installed it was an "authorized" installer of AutoPage alarms.  I'm thinking I should find another "authorized" installer in my area (Philadelphia) and take the car to them and see what they have to say. 

I will say this though - it would explain why my friend who just bought a 2002 BMW has stickers in the windsheild of the car (where you would put your oil change sticker) saying that the car is pre-wired for an alarm, however the alarm MUST be installed by a BMW installer ONLY or it will void any and all warranties on the car. 

Seems problems like this occur more often than you hear about...

Thanks for all of your suggestions and comments.  Any more are greatly appreciated!!!

Dusty
dusty21271 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: July 19, 2004 at 11:43 AM / IP Logged  
I am so seriously about to set this car on fire and call it a day!!!!!
The electrical place said it was absolutely the alarm that is causing allof these problems because it should NEVER have been wired through the ECU. However, they won't remove it. They said to take it back to whoinstalled it and have them un-install it.
Now why would I take it back to the idiots who installed it (obviouslywrong) and trust them to un-install it properly????
I picked the car up from the shop last Tuesday (7/13) since they haveofficially given up on it - since everyone thinks it's the alarm. NOW GETTHIS - how about the stupid thing ran FINE for about 4 days. Started withthe same problems again (the "hard starting") on Saturday, and now(Monday) will not start at all. It cranks, but won't turn over. So nowit's sitting in front of my house, where it will remain until I hit thelottery so I can afford to take it to a dealer where, at this point, Ithink is the ONLY place I'm really going to get to the bottom of all ofthis...
The moral of the story is - NEVER have an after market alarm installed inyour vehicle.
Dusty
Dusty
dusty21271 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: July 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 27, 2004 at 9:05 AM / IP Logged  
Oh, this just keeps getting better and better!!!  So I took it to a Nissandealer (had it towed - AGAIN - thank g-d for AAA!!).  I think I had ittowed there the last week of July.  After having it for 2 weeks withouteven looking at it, they FINALLY looked at it last week (8/17/04).  Tookthem a day and a half to figure out what was wrong with it.  They finallydetermined that there were two wires that were either crossing or shortingout and they were causing the OC sensor and the Crank Shaft sensor to gobad.  They fixed that, got the car running and then determined there was amis-fire problem.  They fixed that.  So they call on 8/20/04 and say thecar is fixed it's running great, the check engine light (which had been onfor over a year) was not on anymore, no codes were coming up on thediagnostic, it's in perfect running condition and come pick it upwhenever.  The bill for all of that was $1,164.71.  Okay, not great, butnot nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be.  So last night(8/25/04) I go pick it up.  How about out of that bill, only $84 dollarswas for parts and the rest was for labor....man I'm in the wrong line ofbusiness!  Now, ready for this...  I literally pull in my driveway (by the way I'mabout 40 min. away from the dealer) and the friggin check engine lightcomes on.  Well at this point it's now after 9pm so no one is even at thedealer to call.  So this morning I go out to go to work hoping that it'sjust the stupid check engine light for some reason and I get about 4blocks from my house and the car just dies.  After about 15 min. I get itstarted again and it sputters the entire way back to the house.  So I call the dealer and tell them that as soon as I got home last nightthe check engine light came on and so on.  So here's what they say to me"bring it in and we'll look at it."  I swear if I could have reachedthrough the phone and choked the idiot on the other end I would have. Anyway, I say "uh, sir, did you not hear me when I said IT DOESN'T RUN???" I said "you're 40 min. away from me and I AM NOT paying to have it towedto you."  They said "well, we have a towing service that will come tow itand then after we look at it, if we determine that the problem is relatedto something we worked on, we'll pay for the tow.  However, if it is aproblem that is unrelated to what we already worked on, we'll bill you forthe tow along with the repairs."  OH HELL NO!!!!  Like they're reallygoing to call and say "yeah, it was our fault, sorry, we'll pay for it" - likethat might happen.  So now I REALLY don't know what to do.  It's been 4 months, 2 shops, thedealership and almost $1800 later and it's still messed up...... I can'ttake much more!
Dusty
Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: August 27, 2004 at 10:06 AM / IP Logged  

I'm it total awe with the whole situation !! I'm not mechanic, but I have had my share of no starting vehicles in my lifetime to help you with your situation. I've also had the thrilling experience of rewiring other installer's messes where they went into the vehicles computer for some stupid reason and wire in remote starter's and alarms systems.

( Please realize this is so that you can do your OWN diagnostics and trace back the problems & this is taking into consideration that the alarm has not been removed )

The easy part is to trace the wires and see where they lead and compare notes to what they tapped into. The wiring diagram for your car is below and these are the only wires the installer should have used for installing an alarm or remtoe starter. They might now have used all of them, but some of them are mandatory. Finding the alarm wires will be easy as the CPU will probably be under the driver's dash area and the wires will be taped up, so use a utility knife to cut off the tape ( making sure that the battery is unhooked ).

After you have found the wires and what they are supposed to be hooked up to, disconnect them at the solder point or junction point and wrap tape around the ends so they are not exposed. If the CPU has been tampered with, it shouldn't be a problem to trace the wires they tapped into OR cut and reconnect the cut wires or disconnect the alarm wires from the CPU harness.

After the alarm has been removed test the car. If it's still not starting check the engine to see if there was wires in the engine bay that the installer could have tampered with. With a NO START or NO CRANK scenario, I would definitely look at the plug wires and the distributor ICM module. If the ICM is not functioning properly, then you will be NO SPARK at all and this will be intermittent. The spring inside the distributor may also be damaged causing intermittent problems.

I'm telling you these instructions because 90 % of the time the owner of the vehicle will be more thorough in troubleshooting their own vehicle than a mechanic will be in a shop. I know your frustrated and at this point you will try anything to get your car running properly, but if a mechanic puts the scan tool on the car and the car doesn't give back and indication that a certain part of the engine has malfunctioned, they will not even look there. Mechanics these days have become complacent with diagnostics equipment to do all their troubleshooting that they forget how to troubleshoot with their own heads. Don't get me wrong, the computer's are great tools in diagnostics troubleshooting, but sometimes when problems like this arise, you have to wonder ?

Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: August 27, 2004 at 10:08 AM / IP Logged  

|       ITEM      |     WIRE COLOR     |POL|       WIRE LOCATION        |

|              12V|wht/red - wht/pur *6|+  |ignition harness            |
|          STARTER|blk/yel - blk/wht *6|+  |ignition harness            |
|   SECOND STARTER|grn/blk - RED / blu *6|+  |ignition harness            |
|         IGNITION|blk/wht - blk/red *6|+  |ignition harness            |
|        ACCESSORY|RED / yel - red *6    |+  |ignition harness            |
| SECOND ACCESSORY|blue - wht/blu *6   |+  |ignition harness            |
|       POWER LOCK|lt. GREEN/ red       |-  |in drivers door at switch   |
|     POWER UNLOCK|GREEN/ YELLOW *1     |-  |in drivers door at switch   |
|       LOCK MOTOR|BROWN / white         |   |in drivers door at switch   |
|     UNLOCK MOTOR|brown               |   |in drivers door at switch   |
|    DISARM DEFEAT|brown               |   |in passenger door at switch |
| PARKING LIGHTS +|RED / green           |   |steering column             |
|       HEADLIGHTS|gry/yel(L)blu/blk(R)|+  |steering column             |
|     DOOR TRIGGER|RED / white           |-  |low in drivers kick         |
|  TRUNK/HATCH PIN|purple / YELLOW       |-  |drivers kick or BCM *2      |
|         HOOD PIN|yellow/black        |-  |BCM *2                      |
|TRNK/HTCH RELEASE|purple / YELLOW       |-  |low drivers kick *3         |
|  FCTRY ALARM ARM|arms w/ lock        |   |                            |
|FCTRY ALRM DISARM|disarms w/ unlock   |   |                            |
| DISARM NO UNLOCK|*4                  |   |                            |
|       TACHOMETER|WHITE/ green         |   |ECM *5                      |
|       BRAKE WIRE|RED / green           |+  |at brake switch             |
|     HORN TRIGGER|GREEN / WHITE         |-  |                            |
|           WIPERS|lt. GREEN/ red       |-  |steering column             |
|  LF WINDOW UP/DN|blu/red - blu/blk   |A  |in LF door at switch        |
|  RF WINDOW UP/DN|blu/red - blu/blk   |A  |in RF door at switch        |
|  LR WINDOW UP/DN|blu/red - blu/blk   |A  |in LR door at switch        |
|  RR WINDOW UP/DN|blu/red - blu/blk   |A  |in RR door at switch        |

Notes:

*1 Requires a double pulse.  *2 The BCM (body control module) is located just below the radio.  *3 Must use a relay to interface with this circuit.  *4 A single negative pulse to the unlock wire will disarm without unlocking.  *5 The ECM is located in the front of the center console on the transmission hump. The wiring is easily reached by removing the small black panel just to the front of the center console on the passenger side. the wire is in the middle row, 7th one in from the left.  *6 The ignition harness wires change color at a plug. The above listed colors show both sides of the plug.

Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
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