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Ground Q/A sticky


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racer427 
Silver - Posts: 381
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Joined: August 04, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:16 PM / IP Logged  

Hey guy's,

     One question, Does grounding the rca cables help to removed atl. noise?

Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:31 PM / IP Logged  
racer427 wrote:
Hey guy's,
    One question, Does grounding the rca cables help to removed atl. noise?
Grounding the shielding of the rca specifically, outer conductor.
It depends on what exactly is causing the engine noise. It usually is the first step I take when trying to eliminate engine noise.
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Teken 
Gold - Posts: 1,492
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Joined: August 04, 2002
Location: Aruba
Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:34 PM / IP Logged  
Sometimes it does, sometimes it wont. If the noise is being induced, you are relying alot on the shielding / quality of the RCA connectors.
Regardless of all the *Golden Ears* hype about quality RCA's. The only reason I spend the extra hard earned $$$ is to ensure that shielding is there, just for that particular reason.
That is what you should be paying for...
Regards
EVIL Teken . . .
racer427 
Silver - Posts: 381
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Joined: August 04, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 24, 2004 at 5:35 PM / IP Logged  
The rca's that I am using are medium quality that came with the install kit that I bought. They are run on the opposite side of the car from the power but all come together behind a big panel at the back of the van. I have done my best to keep the power lines routed away from the speaker and rca's.
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds
racer427 
Silver - Posts: 381
Silver spacespace
Joined: August 04, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: August 25, 2004 at 7:55 PM / IP Logged  
Ok, what is  the proper way to ground them?
Alpine CDA-9833 HU
Diamond Audio M661 Components
MTX Thunder T6.6 Components:rear fill:
Cadence Q400 4 Channel Mains + rears
Thunder 801D Subs
MTX 1004 10's
Dual 4g wire to rear
4g grounds
TubeDriveRMD 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: August 18, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 14, 2004 at 10:24 PM / IP Logged  
Thanks to all for the advice.........I FINALLY have a dead quiet car!! the alternaor whine is gone. after 7 weeks, i can now enjoy my system. As suspected, bad ground location = ground loop. All it took was a competent installer who knows his sh*t. thanks to all at tweeter, you guys rock!!!
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djmoose 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: August 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 21, 2004 at 2:50 AM / IP Logged  
Ok, all great info here...but I'm still stumped. Here's my situation:
Brand new 2004 Aztek
Pioneer AVH-P6600DVD Head Unit
Alpine Type-X SPX-177A 6 3/4" Comps
Kicker Round Solo-Barics (12")
Hifonics Thor Series VIII Amps (2)
Coustic XM-3 Crossover
Phoenix Gold TDD-5 Relay System
4 ga power from battery to amps & assoc.
Stinger fused power Distro block (4>8 ga)
8 ga ground from each amp (and DD5) to sanded chasis grounds. (each measured .3 ohms)
XM-3 crossover is grounded to the DD5.
2 sets of Stinger Hyper series rcas from HU to XM-3
First, I had the HU installed and playing through the factory speakers and everything sounded FINE. (via the HU's amp)
I install the amps, and have some system noise. First of all, I have a TAD bit of alt wine...but it's not too loud...and defintitely can't be heard even with music at low volumes.
The big problem is that I have a constant pitched humm that comes on as soon as the amps turn on. (I can tell because of the delayed turn on) It's the same volume at any volume setting on the HU...and becomes louder and softer with the gain on the highs amp...however, the loudest I've ever had the gain is 50%...so it's not a matter of the gains beign too high. (4V pre-outs on the HU)
As SOON as I disconnect the RCAs from the crossover (with everything on) the sound goes away.
Here's how've I've tried to fix it:
I've run a ground wire back to where everything else is grounded (amps & crossover in the back) and grounded the HU there. (just had the wire on the seats...just testing. Nothing changed. Humm is still there.
I did the same thing with an extra set of RCAs...just running from the deck over the seats to the crossover...and same thing.
I made muting RCA connectors...hooked them up to the crossover...turned everything on...and NO NOISE.
So, looks like it's the head unit...since there was still noise with different RCAs running trough the cabin. (also moved it around to see if it might also be hear something)
During these checks...I noticed that when the engine is off...the only time there is humm is when the parking lights or headlights are on. However it's always there when the engine is on. Does this mean it's the car's electrical system?
I've also run seperate power and grounds for the HU and no dice.
Here is another thing that MIGHT contribute. Since it's a new GM (Pontiac) I needed to use the Databuss II adapter for the chimes...and it also works with turning the deck on and off as well. This has it's own power and ground...and is hooked up into the harness as well...so the HU is pretty much sharing power and ground with this as well.
Any thoughts?
I've done the ground parts of the Big 3
Thanks for any help,
moose
--------------------
'Technics'
2004 Pontiac Aztek
http://members.sounddomain.com/dj_moose
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: September 22, 2004 at 1:11 PM / IP Logged  
Where are the amplifiers grounded to?
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djmoose 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: August 26, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: September 22, 2004 at 8:59 PM / IP Logged  
There are two bolts about 6-7 inches away from each amp. The bolts are in holes that are in the actual floor of the truck. (you can see the road through the holes.
Quick update...I guess the gains were up a bit too high...with the gains on the Thor for the highs all the way down...the humm is almost gone...however, there is a TAD bit of humm still there...not to mention that the highs are a tad bit softer now. So, I'm going to try to groud the amps together...however that means that the sub amp will have a ground wire about 15 inches long. Maybe if I just run another ground wire between the two bolts...that will help.
Also, I just ordered a audiocontrol matrix to up the voltage on the pre-outs. Hopefully this will lower the noise floor even more.
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: September 23, 2004 at 12:11 PM / IP Logged  
Do you have a meter? A single ground point for your amps is going to be a good thing. Using a factory bolt hole might not be such a hot idea though. Don't worry about your ground wire being too long, it is more important that it is the right guage for the length as compared to keeping it short.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
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