16 gauge copper wire to small?

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cyberer

Member - Posts: 6

Joined: April 01, 2004

Location: Canada

Posted: September 05, 2004 at 4:24 PM / IP Logged

hi, is 16 gauge wire going to be to small for about 200-400 watts. it will go from my amp to my sub. t

Asmodeus

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Joined: September 02, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 05, 2004 at 4:34 PM / IP Logged

I would use something a little thicker...12ga...

16 would be fine for mids and highs something that doesnt have as much current draw...

16 gauge copper wire to small? -- posted image.

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Ravendarat

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Joined: February 23, 2004

Location: Canada

Posted: September 05, 2004 at 4:39 PM / IP Logged

personally I think 16 gauge would be suffiectent for your purposes. You can use thicker wire but I dont think you need to.

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Teken

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Posted: September 05, 2004 at 5:58 PM / IP Logged

16 guage will pass 15 amperes at a continous steady state. If your amplifier / sub combination will draw down more than 15 amperes steady state.

Then you would be wise to upgrade to a larger guage. As it was indicated by Asmodeus, 12 guage would be better, and it will allow you to increase the draw in the future without any fears.

It really comes down to how you listen to your music, and at what volume levels. Which the amplifier, and sub are also factors.

If you are doing the occasional ground pounding, then 16 guage is just fine. If you listen at extreme levels all day long, and the insulator is of low quality you will find that the cable will fuse do to excessive current draw.

Pay now, or pay later . . . The costs for 12 guage is so cheap, why not??

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

customsuburb

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Posted: September 05, 2004 at 8:03 PM / IP Logged

Teken wrote:

16 guage will pass 15 amperes at a continous steady state. If your amplifier / sub combination will draw down more than 15 amperes steady state.

Then you would be wise to upgrade to a larger guage. As it was indicated by Asmodeus, 12 guage would be better, and it will allow you to increase the draw in the future without any fears.

It really comes down to how you listen to your music, and at what volume levels. Which the amplifier, and sub are also factors.

Pay now, or pay later . . . The costs for 12 guage is so cheap, why not??

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

Teken, I think cyberer is talking about the wire going from his speaker output on his amp to his sub, not his power wire.

Steven Kephart

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Posted: September 05, 2004 at 8:45 PM / IP Logged

My boss told me once that 16 awg is plenty for speaker wire. I proved him right at a competition pulling a very impressive number for my setup and only using 18 awg wire. The output of amplifiers are usually high voltage/low current which is why you can get away with smaller wire. Sure larger wire looks better and will be used in my install in the future, but it isn't needed from a performance standpoint.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Ketel22

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Joined: August 23, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: September 05, 2004 at 9:55 PM / IP Logged

steven maybe you should bring your older more technical explaination back if there is further dispute about it...

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dpaton

Copper - Posts: 141

Joined: July 19, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: September 05, 2004 at 10:18 PM / IP Logged

Steven Kephart wrote:

ure larger wire looks better and will be used in my install in the future, but it isn't needed from a performance standpoint.

While I don't doubt that Dan is right in some circumstances, dampening factor can have a large effect on the sound and efficency of a system. The cbale ABX tests I've done have shown it irrifutably.

To those who don't know about DF:

Think of it this way...an amplifier has a certain output impedence, usually around 0.01 ohm in car amps. A speaker has a certain impedence, usually 4 ohms nominal. That makes the dampening factor 400 (4/0.01). DF is the measure of how much control the amplifier has over the driver. Any resistance between the amplifier and the driver is counted into the amplifier part of the equiation. If you have 0.5 ohms of wire in between the amp and the speaker (0.25 ohms in each wire...round trip impedence is important), all of a sudden your DF drops from 400 to 7.8 (4/(0.01+0.5)).

Taking the example of a pair of front speakers and an amp in the back of the car (15' of wire is not at all uncommon), 30 feet (remember, it's round trip) of 16AWG wire and a 4 ohm speaker will give you a dampening factor of only 30. 18AWG would give you the same DF with only a 9.8' run. 10AWG is definately overkill, but if you're using long runs, 18AWG isn't the greatest idea either.

Personally, I use 12AWG for my fronts because my amp (an old ADS) has a relatively high output impedence, and I want to do everything I can to help it out.

-dave

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stevdart

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Posted: September 05, 2004 at 11:16 PM / IP Logged

http://www.bcae1.com/wire.htm has a good calculator to show resistance in the wire when you plug in your numbers. You could also test resistance yourself with a good DMM to verify resistance in your wire runs. (DMMs have internal resistance, too, so be sure to subtract that from any reading you get. Connect the two probes and see the reading for internal resistance. Mine has 0.8 ohm, which I always have to subtract from any resistance reading I take...)

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Steven Kephart

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Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: September 06, 2004 at 12:38 AM / IP Logged

dpaton wrote:

Steven Kephart wrote:

ure larger wire looks better and will be used in my install in the future, but it isn't needed from a performance standpoint.

While I don't doubt that Dan is right in some circumstances, dampening factor can have a large effect on the sound and efficency of a system. The cbale ABX tests I've done have shown it irrifutably.

To those who don't know about DF:

Personally, I use 12AWG for my fronts because my amp (an old ADS) has a relatively high output impedence, and I want to do everything I can to help it out.

-dave

Interesting, a possible technical dispute. I will have to let Dan know about this thread and see what comes up. I remember a LONG time ago Richard Clark gave a tech answer on why damping factor is a useless rating, but I have seen Dan prove RC wrong in some instances. I'm kinda curious where Dan stands on this issue.

Maybe you could explain how Damping Factor effects the control over the woofer? Remember the speaker produces a dynamic impedance that can change from 4 ohms (we'll use a more standard driver) all the way up to 80 ohms and sometimes beyond (depending on enclosure/speaker/frequency). 18 awg wire 30 feet long has a resistance of .1956 ohms at 77 degrees farenheit. I can't see how such a small change in resistance from going to a larger awg wire would have any effect on the system, especially when the speakers impedance is changing so much. Power loss is VERY small, and completely inaudible.

I'm really looking forward to your answer.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

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