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Initial impression: Adire Extremis 6.8


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Steven Kephart 
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Posted: February 07, 2005 at 7:37 PM / IP Logged  

bullman96 wrote:
the sony and kenwood are my amps for my components. fixed my signature. the reason i want 4 ohms is because i am short on power. What would be a good amp for the extremis's? thanks

Oh, yeah.  I suppose if I had paid attention to those model numbers I would have realized that.  Plus it makes more sense than running a set of Sony tweeters and Kenwood mids. Initial impression: Adire Extremis 6.8 - Page 2 -- posted image.

How much power is that amp?  Why do you think you don't have enough power?  Is it because the mids are bottoming out early?  If that is why then I would recommend running a high pass filter on them.  That will allow you to play them at a higher volume level. 

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

bullman96 
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Posted: February 07, 2005 at 11:41 PM / IP Logged  
it claims to be able to do 150rms. i dont see how as it starts cooking at 125 or so and sounds like a** anyways above that level. i keep it around 100 and have a 3way crossover on my deck. the mb quart lower mids are pretty bad so i want to get some 7's or 8's. i have a pair of vifa 8's but they wont work in my door without some serious external modifications to the door panels and i am thinking about selling my truck. so i would have to put them in boxes behind the seats on the sides. so thats out of the question. i am also planning on getting a new amp for my mids this summer along with the midbasses and am planning of just biting the bullet and getting a mcintosh. am also buying a bmw so will have to get a lower powered 4 channel if i am going with that high end of an amp. sucks to pay for college and love your music. thanks for your help.
i would love to know of an amp other than a mcintosh that will push the extremis's to the best sound quality possible. that way i can get one really expensive 2 channel and on moderately expensive 2 channel, of course, while still having enough left over for a brahma or 2 and an amp to push them.
Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
kfr01 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 12:07 AM / IP Logged  

Personal opinion here.  Many amps will push any driver, including the extremis, to the best sound quality possible.  Look at brand typically known to be honest with their numbers and get one with a reasonable s/n ratio and thd.  Any amp of appropriate wattage for your listening habits with these three characteristics should sound excellent.  The audible differences between amplifiers that meet a minimum level of competency should approach nill.  That said, even very good amplifiers can produce slightly different sound.  However, in my brief experience with audio, these differences aren't measured in 'better' or 'worse' just subjectively different.  I feel the speakers and the application have MUCH more to do with the sound quality of your system than amplification, assuming, again, that the minimum level of competency is met. 

In sum:  I'd spend more money on speakers and their application before looking to very expensive brands like McIntosh.  Even with very expensive brands, I think the audible differences will be near nill.  Those differences that are audible are going to be very slight and very subjective. 

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
bullman96 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 12:13 AM / IP Logged  
i disagree,i think an amp is the most important part of a system. if i could build a tube amp for my truck without it breaking i sure as hell would. i guess amp quality is just as subjective as speaker quality, but amp quality has no relation to wire quality
Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
kfr01 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 12:23 AM / IP Logged  

What basis do you have for your opinion?  I think you have none.

MANY MANY amplifiers have dead flat frequency response, higher damping levels than can have an audible effect on sound, and lower than audible s/n and thd numbers throughout the entire frequency range at full rated power. 

Take speakers, a TOTALLY different story.  Even the most expensive drivers in the world cannot begin to approach a completely flat frequency response.  They ALL have higher distortion levels than even moderately priced amplifiers.  Every slight change in listening angle, distance, alignment, and any other number of variables alter their sound quality. 

I think you're dead wrong and that you have absolutely no basis for your opinion.  Please find me some credible reference that supports your view.  You'll find there is none.

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
Ravendarat 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 12:35 AM / IP Logged  
Tube amps generally dont work worth a sh*t in a car. They exist but arent a good idea. A tube amp depends on having a good source of high current. A vehicle cannot even begin to properly feed a good tube amp. Thats why most of the amps that claim to be tube amps in a car are actually hybrids with solid state and tube. The reason why a tube amp is always rated at low wattage is because of the massive amounts of current it uses. A tube amp may be rated at 12 watts of power but will put all of these "500 Watt" home recievers to shame. Cars are such a hostile enviroment, and you are very right that a pure tube amp in a car would probally have to be pulled out and sent for service more than it could be used, but even if I had one that was dependable, I dont think I would use it because the current comsumption would just be to great. Now that I have said that we can all wait for one of the guys on here who knows more than me to come in and explain why I am wrong and were my statements were flawed. It never fails and I never get tired of seeing it :)
double-secret reverse-osmosis speaker-cone-induced high-level interference distortion, Its a killer
bullman96 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 12:46 AM / IP Logged  
its my opinion from listening to different amps. i was just asking for an amp that sounded as neutral as possible without shelling out the extra on a second mcintosh. i listened to a mcintosh power some focal comps a couple days back and it was amazing. back up your opinion. i dont state useless numbers unless it pertains to a speaker, the crossover(which should not really be determined by the manufacturers stats, but the application's stats), and the box being designed for. s/n doesnt affect how the amp adds character(or doesnt) to the sound reproduction, which, they all do. i agree in the fact that speaker application makes up a huge portion of the sq in a system. the percentage of the total harmonic distortion on an amp has nothing to do with the color, same with the hu. speakers can be judged numerically, but if you can pick the best amp out of a dozen by looking at numbers, than you must be psychic. i trust my ear backed up by the specs.
Pioneer PEH-9660mp
Mb Quart PCE-216 biamped
JL 12W6v2
Sony XM-4026 amp for tweeters
Kenwood KAC-7251 amp for mids
JL-4100 amp for sub
haemphyst 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 1:44 AM / IP Logged  
bullman, while it is true there will be some VANISHINGLY SMALL sonic characteristic differences in amplifiers, the speakers, are in fact the weakest part in any audio system. This is almost universally agreed upon. I need you to reconsider the last line of your post. "You trust your ear, backed up by specs", yet you say you like tube amplifiers. Have you ever seen the distortion ratings on a tube amplifier? They are orders of magnitude higher than the distortion of even a modest solid state amplifier - I have seen THDs as high as 7% on a tube amp, with S/N ratios around 40dB... Is THAT what you call accurate or "neutral" reproduction? I NEVER look at the specs on an amplifier, except for power and slew rate (if published), because MOST amp specs mean nothing.
Actually, if an amplifier is designed correctly, it will add nothing to the signal - straight wire with gain, is an ideal amplifier, but we all know there is no such thing. I will GUARANTEE to you, right now, that you will hear more differences in a speaker swap, than you would with an amplifier swap, and I can probably get you into the Harmon/JBL blind listening room to prove it to you, and if you can pick out the swapped component (be it a speaker or amplifer) a mathematically significant number of times in a given time frame, I'd be absolutely amazed, because I have set down in this room, and so have MANY highly respected audio engineers from around the world, and they cant do it a mathematically significant portion of the time.
I gotta go with kfr01 and ravendarat - you are wrong, and if you can explain better to all of us where the justification for your statement comes from, I'll apologize. Until then, I'm sorry my friend, you're simply wrong.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
kfr01 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 6:35 AM / IP Logged  

bullman96 wrote:
its my opinion from listening to different amps. i was just asking for an amp that sounded as neutral as possible without shelling out the extra on a second mcintosh. i listened to a mcintosh power some focal comps a couple days back and it was amazing. back up your opinion. i dont state useless numbers unless it pertains to a speaker, the crossover(which should not really be determined by the manufacturers stats, but the application's stats), and the box being designed for. s/n doesnt affect how the amp adds character(or doesnt) to the sound reproduction, which, they all do. i agree in the fact that speaker application makes up a huge portion of the sq in a system. the percentage of the total harmonic distortion on an amp has nothing to do with the color, same with the hu. speakers can be judged numerically, but if you can pick the best amp out of a dozen by looking at numbers, than you must be psychic. i trust my ear backed up by the specs.

You disappoint me, I thought you'd put up a better counter than that.  :-) You want me to find a reference?  Give me 2 seconds on google and I gaurantee I can find one.  Yep, here it is.  Mr. Linkwitz, an expert in the field of audio reproduction, lists components in order of importance by the effect they have on accurate reproduction of music.  His list is:  1) Loudspeaker  2)  Listening room   3)  [Turntable]   4)  Amplifier  5)  D/A / Transport  6)  Cables, etc.   See Siegfried Linkwitz, Sound Reproduction at: http://www.linkwitzlab.com/reproduction.htm.

I don't follow the logic of your argument.  You posit that a) amplifier specs are useless but that b) all amplifiers add character or not to the sound reproduction and c) because of this unknown character X amplifiers are more important than speakers.  You make too large a jump from (b) to (c) and disregard the fact that (a) bites you in the ass.  ;-)  You're totally right, amplifier specifications _are_ largely meaningless past a certain point - you help my argument nicely.  As the specifications improve, audible differences in amplifiers decrease.  The next logical step is that as these audible differences decrease, the 'character' an amplifier adds also decreases.  i.e. as their variables approach these certain orders of magnitude that many amplifiers can obtain, and as these same variables between amplifiers also approach one another, the audible characteristic differences heard will approach 0. 

If _you_ can pick out the best amplifier in a room, much less a car (snicker), blind, among an array of competent others, then you, my friend, are the psychic.

If your argument is really just that with McIntosh you _know_ that you're getting a very high end, well built, and accurate product, then fine - I appreciate that.  However, if this is the case, I'd urge you to reconsider your opinion that loudspeakers are less important than amplification. 

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
T.Hill 
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Posted: February 08, 2005 at 9:39 AM / IP Logged  
DYohn, have you had a chance to listen to the RE XXX mids yet? From what I understand they are in the same class as the Extreme6.8's. Maybe Steven can elaborate on that last comment.
Pioneer DEH-P980BT, Zapco DCREF1000.4,Pioneer TS-C520PRS, Adire Extremis, MTX TA91002, TC Sounds TC-3000 15"
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