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Platinum - Posts: 5,352
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Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: May 12, 2005 at 3:33 PM / IP Logged  
I too would take a look at the Eclipse Titanium or Aluminum series of drivers. After 6 years of retailing these speakers, they are still a stand out favorite.
Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
sedate 
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Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: May 12, 2005 at 9:39 PM / IP Logged  
Francious said it best:
"Kappa Perfect"
Try modeling a single Kappa Perfect 12.1 v/ a single JLW7 w/ WinISD... like he say "so damn inefficent"
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Master Asylum 
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Posted: May 13, 2005 at 7:16 AM / IP Logged  

Efficiency means only so much...

Moving on, what amp would go well with the Eclipse Ti or Al series? I'll tack the Titaniums to the list for sure to listen to.

Also with the Adire Brahma, why isn't it listed near their Tumult series and such? Just kinda wanting to get info on them.

Thanks for the help guys!

EDIT: Also anymore amp suggestions to look at known for SQ ability? :) Really could use a few more than JL and MTX

1998 Monte Carlo w/
Eclipse CD8454
2xRockford 5.25" Power 2-way T152C
2xRockford 6"x9" Punch 3-way FRC4369
1xMemphis 16-MCH1300 5-channel
2xKicker 12" L5 Solobaric-2 Ohm
Francious70 
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Posted: May 13, 2005 at 1:09 PM / IP Logged  
Yea, I know the efficiency only means so much. But why throw 1500 watts at a sub to reach 120dB when I could run 500 watts instead (easier on my electrical system) to a more "sensitive" sub to reach that same point.
You know they DO measure SPL in SQ competitions too right??
Paul
*EDIT* and since when is MTX know for SQ?? Hey dude, go check out a Phoneix Gold Ti Elite 12.
sedate 
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Posted: May 13, 2005 at 1:43 PM / IP Logged  
Francious I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm throwing 800-watts at a JL13W6 and hitting something like 115 or so in a sealed box. I foolishly replaced a pair of Kappa Perfects with the stupid overpriced behemoth when my system was stolen and insurance basically let me read off model numbers of what I wanted to replace it with.
So learned how to use WinISD last week...
I modeled a Kappa Perfect vs the W6, both in manufactuer spec sealed boxes w/ WinISD... imagine my suprise when the response curve was just was flat with the Perfect... at a whooping 9dB increase. Same for the 13W7...
Maybe I'm missing something or haven't heard the right system, but after my own experience, and espeically after playing with WinISD a bit..I'm really trying to figure out the point of 1000watt RMS subs.
"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Francious70 
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Posted: May 13, 2005 at 3:05 PM / IP Logged  
Maybe it something to do with less sensitive subs having lower distortion #'s. Maybe Stephen could come here and explain it to me.
Paul
Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 13, 2005 at 4:02 PM / IP Logged  

Francious70 wrote:
Yea, I know the efficiency only means so much. But why throw 1500 watts at a sub to reach 120dB when I could run 500 watts instead (easier on my electrical system) to a more "sensitive" sub to reach that same point. 

Because Hoffman's iron law says you have to either give up enclosure size or low frequency extention to gain that efficiency.  I personally would rather run more power as it is getting much cheaper to buy and amplifiers are getting more efficient themselves.  We don't just decide to make the subs less efficient because it's the trend.  We do it because it makes sense to obtain our design goals based on what the market demands.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 13, 2005 at 4:04 PM / IP Logged  

haemphyst wrote:
The Eclipse Ti12 - 1 cuft sealed - I am beatin' mine with 2700 watts, although you don't NEED that much. 1500w RMS, 3 inch linear Xmax... Best thing going out there, except the Tumult, which can only be bought right now with LARGE amounts of Unobtanium...

I just wanted to point out that the Xmax rating is Xmech only.  The true Xmax on that subwoofer was tested down around 22mm one way linear (less than 2" peak to peak).  But even still, it is a pretty nice sub.

Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: May 13, 2005 at 4:22 PM / IP Logged  

sedate wrote:
Francious I couldn't agree with you more.
I'm throwing 800-watts at a JL13W6 and hitting something like 115 or so in a sealed box. I foolishly replaced a pair of Kappa Perfects with the stupid overpriced behemoth when my system was stolen and insurance basically let me read off model numbers of what I wanted to replace it with.
So learned how to use WinISD last week...
I modeled a Kappa Perfect vs the W6, both in manufactuer spec sealed boxes w/ WinISD... imagine my suprise when the response curve was just was flat with the Perfect... at a whooping 9dB increase. Same for the 13W7...
Maybe I'm missing something or haven't heard the right system, but after my own experience, and espeically after playing with WinISD a bit..I'm really trying to figure out the point of 1000watt RMS subs.

Are you looking at the response curves with 1 watt power input?  Because I believe they just base those curves on the efficiency of the driver.  So if there is a 9 dB difference in the efficiency of the two drivers, that difference will be shown in the curves.  I don't play with WinISD much as we use LspCad for our modeling.  It allows you to see the response of the system with more than 1 watt of power applied, and shows what the excursion limits of the subs are at those higher power levels within the system.    This helps us compare the true output capabilities of two subs at different frequencies.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

Francious70 
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Posted: May 13, 2005 at 5:03 PM / IP Logged  
Ahh, Stephen, I've never heard that law before. i never even knew that the sensitivity had anything to do with the frequency response.
And WinISD does let you enter in different power ratings for what you're modeling.
Sorry for the threadjack MA, but it's kinda in line with the whole SQ sub thing.
Here I have 1 Kappa Perfect and 1 Brahama. Each in a 1 cubic foot box with 600 watts input. The yellow line is the Kappa and the green is the Brahama.
SQ Subs - Page 2 -- posted image.
This is a graph of the excursion of each sub with the same 600 watts input. The Kappa's excursion limits are .55 inches. It obviously has a sub-sonic filter in place to keep it from over excursion.
SQ Subs - Page 2 -- posted image.
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