substained alternator abuse

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maglin

Copper - Posts: 206

Joined: June 30, 2004

Location: United States

Posted: August 12, 2005 at 11:54 AM / IP Logged

hey now. new battery, new alt, new cap. = teh allowed room for a new system. most times people do it bass ackwards. new system, alt goes, new alt. battery goes, new battery. lol.

it just seems to me, and i'm not an expert on it, but seems to be at least, that a cap is another thing that your car has to charge up. While the bass is hitting, your electrical system screams "NOT ME!", while its not hitting, the cap is screaming for a charge for teh next time the bass hits (half seconds later). so. adding a cap isn't like adding a bandaid, it seems, but a second wound, and only one of which you can keep pressure on at a time. lol. you're still going to die, even tho it seems like you're trying to save your own life.

... then again. i could be totally foobared in teh head, and totally off base here. lol.

good alt, good battery. just remember, nothing is perpetual. you put a bigger alt in the car, and make demands of it, its going to be demanding of your engine, and start to tax on other things too.

~~Vinn

6061dyson

Member - Posts: 33

Joined: August 05, 2005

Location: United Kingdom

Posted: August 12, 2005 at 7:58 PM / IP Logged

Sounds right to me. Just gotta avoid those "ah f*** " moments your stuck on a the side of bypass in the rain lol with your electrics anchoring you to the spot.

Blowntweeters

Silver - Posts: 650

Joined: June 03, 2005

Location: Nevada, United States

Posted: August 12, 2005 at 9:03 PM / IP Logged

boulderguy wrote:

Blowntweeters wrote:

boulderguy let me ask you this do you have a cap in your car and how can a cap magicly charge faster than a battery

Yup, I've got a cap - keeps my headlights from going into seizures. Probably doesn't help the sound. Lots of people think they will & are ultimately disappointed. Here's what they can do -

The difference between a capacitor and a battery is that a capacitor can dump its entire charge in a tiny fraction of a second, where a battery would take minutes to completely discharge itself. That's why the electronic flash on a camera uses a capacitor -- the battery charges up the flash's capacitor over several seconds, and then the capacitor dumps the full charge into the flash tube almost instantly. This can make a large, charged capacitor extremely dangerous -- flash units and TVs have warnings about opening them up for this reason. They contain big capacitors that can, potentially, kill you with the charge they contain.

Capacitors are used in several different ways in electronic circuits:

Sometimes, capacitors are used to store charge for high-speed use. That's what a flash does. Big lasers use this technique as well to get very bright, instantaneous flashes.
Capacitors can also eliminate ripples. If a line carrying DC voltage has ripples or spikes in it, a big capacitor can even out the voltage by absorbing the peaks and filling in the valleys.

So no magic involved, just physics.

Blowntweeters wrote:

then i installed it and they were pissed they go some extra lights for $100 plus bucks

This makes less sense than a fat kid playing dodgeball. Are you familiar with punctuation?

Blowntweeters wrote:

caps are a waste of money alternaters and kinetik batterys are the way to go

Upgrading your elec system is sound advice when warranted, but how many of your customers have spent $600 to upgrade when they could have solved their problem with a $60 cap? That's what I'm driving at here - you're handing out strong opinions & advice about how worthless something is based on a .3db loss at an SPL contest, which more likely came from 100 other possible problems - hot amps, cool batteries, lower operating voltage, a loose screw in a speaker panel, temp changes - - any of these could easily cause a drop in SPL, but you're blaming it on a cap. This just makes no sense & the physics don't support you. That's like saying "I had engine trouble after using Amoco gas, hence gas is really bad for your engine." I think you need to re-evaluate some things.

you hit it right on the head. a cap can dump it's entire charge in a tiny fraction of a second and guess what it can't charge that fast so it dumps its power and needs more so basiclly it masks the problem and makes it worse by demanding more power from your eletrical system

1974 ford pinto 4 15" punch Z power punch bd 1001 pioneer DEH-6700

boulderguy

Silver - Posts: 510

Joined: April 17, 2005

Location: United States

Posted: August 12, 2005 at 11:15 PM / IP Logged

Hey, you managed to squeeze in a period after that first sentence. Those grammer classes must be working out well for you.

Why can't it charge that fast also? The cap doesn't pull power away from the other electronics in the system to my knowledge. Besides, it really doesn't store that much juice in the first place - don't let the size fool ya.

Look, before this gets ugly let's go back to the original question - this guy's got a problem with his headlights doing disco. You're right in that the problem is that his elec system doesn't put out enough chutzpah and he would be best off by replacing his alt & battery. But what if he could save $500 by using a cap, what if that solved his immediate problem - would you still tell him to spend the extra money? Do you really think that's the right thing to do, all because of your SPL contest experience?

You've clearly been around for a while, what you say shouldn't be so short-sighted.

Blowntweeters

Silver - Posts: 650

Joined: June 03, 2005

Location: Nevada, United States

Posted: August 13, 2005 at 10:57 AM / IP Logged

it's not just that SPL comp it's also one install that really made me lean away from caps i installed a ton of soundstream gear in a 95 montecarlo and a 5 fared cap and every thing seemed good and after the bass hit hard 4 of five times the lights were dimming so bad you could just turned them off and it would be the same caps to me seem to work for a short time and then they can't seem to keep enough power if this guy can get buy with a yellow top or a cap great i would not tell him to spend more money and yes i failed english class my grammer is s***** IMO this guy is better of trying a yellow top or a kinetik battery

1974 ford pinto 4 15" punch Z power punch bd 1001 pioneer DEH-6700

NicP

Member - Posts: 29

Joined: March 26, 2005

Location: Australia

Posted: August 14, 2005 at 1:24 AM / IP Logged

Blowntweeters wrote:

Do you understand why the lights were dimming or do you just use it as a basis to draw a conclusion that caps suck? I'll happily explain it :)

6061dyson

Member - Posts: 33

Joined: August 05, 2005

Location: United Kingdom

Posted: August 14, 2005 at 10:33 AM / IP Logged

Whoa! Its not a moral thing at all!

I haven't even upgraded the big 3 wires yet, so im sure that'll really show the full extent to my dimming and whether a cap/alternator/ is the propper solution. Thing is, a basic 0.5 farad cap here is £70+. A days wages.

A 1.0 farad cap is £100+. SO they really aren't cheap!

e.g Rockford Fosgate CPCD10-03 Power digi cap £139

(i wanna avoid having anything like so nasty as Pyle)

How much do u get one in america?

Batteries

Optima Yellow Top YT S 5.5 - Model Number BCI D31 12V, 75Ah £251 (top line)

Optima Yellow top - Model Number BCI D51 12V, 41Ah £170 (bottom line)

Optima Red Top RT S 2.1 6V, 50Ah £113 (mid line)

Optima Yellow Top - D1000S # 12volt

# 1000 Cranking amps (SAE)

# 750 Cold Cranking amps (SAE) £179

Whats better value now? I hope this gives u an idea you can compare to your own experience of value and you can convert the info into model no. in the US for comparison.

Blowntweeters

Silver - Posts: 650

Joined: June 03, 2005

Location: Nevada, United States

Posted: August 14, 2005 at 12:50 PM / IP Logged

NicP wrote:

Blowntweeters wrote:

Do you understand why the lights were dimming or do you just use it as a basis to draw a conclusion that caps suck? I'll happily explain it :)

i think i understand why the lights where dimming so bad if you would like to explain in detail what causes that feel free but the bottom line is you can store as much power as you want but if your eletrical system is not producing enough power in time you will use all the power that is stored and still have the same problem

1974 ford pinto 4 15" punch Z power punch bd 1001 pioneer DEH-6700

NicP

Member - Posts: 29

Joined: March 26, 2005

Location: Australia

Posted: August 15, 2005 at 6:42 AM / IP Logged

yes exactly, if the cars electrical system isnt producing enough power for your amps or whatever a cap will be of no use whatsoever, in fact it can make problems worse as you have seen in your experience

but if the cars electrical system just cant keep up with the peaks of output power the system wants to pull, but is still producing enough power on average overall, a cap will provide the power at times when the music peaks

Last time i checked here caps were 1/2 to 2/3 of the price of a battery but most importantly they are a hell of a lot smaller

Paradigm

Silver - Posts: 284

Joined: November 25, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: August 15, 2005 at 2:50 PM / IP Logged

boulderguy wrote:

...But what if he could save $500 by using a cap, what if that solved his immediate problem - would you still tell him to spend the extra money?

I highlighted that one word for a reason - A CAP WILL NOT SOLVE THIS PROBLEM OR ANY OTHER! That's as plain as I can state it. If the lights stop dimming after installing a cap, the problem is STILL THERE, it is just not noticable after the addition of the cap. His battery and stock alternator will die prematurely due to the continued strain on his electrical system, and now, instead of having saved $500 by getting the cap, he now has to pay 2-3 times that to replace the battery, alternator, and maybe even the electrical wiring in his vehicle. Is this beginning to sink in at all? Maybe a little? A teensy bit?

I have a cap and have used a cap in all my systems. But it is not there to solve an electrical problem (just had to throw that in there an extra time just in case substained alternator abuse - Page 3 -- posted image. ).

VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2

Alpine CDA-7940

AudioControl EQT x2

JL Audio 1000/1

JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3

Kicker ZR120

Kicker ZR460

Polk GXR-6 x4

Polk GXR-4 x2

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