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Bench testing system w/scope and fn.gen


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stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 14, 2005 at 8:29 AM / IP Logged  

You WILL occasionally have recordings that are as loud as the reference 0 db level you set the system up to handle.  I know I have made CDs that I downloaded and burned to disk that have reached those limits.  And I can also think of some store-bought CDs that are at the threshold.  So, no, it's not a moot point to set up the gains correctly.  You are not supposed to set everything up by the book and then go and readjust them by using a music source.  You might as well set up your system like a rookie to begin with if you're going to do that.

The point being made at BCAE1 is that you are likely to find a lower level of output when playing most music sources than you found using the 0 db reference.  That's a no-brainer.  But this is also a no-brainer:  buy a more powerful system if the output of what you are currently using is not loud enough.

And....I will emphasize again that you should listen for the clipping signal as well as looking for it on the scope.  You'll be surprised at how clearly you'll hear it using a sine wave.  All for a well-rounded experience, and a way to double-check.  Personally, I don't have a 'scope, so I double-check by reading voltage output and using Ohm's Law after I've listened for the clipping.  Guess what?  It's always on-the-money.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
slipnfall 
Member - Posts: 36
Member spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: December 31, 2005 at 12:38 AM / IP Logged  

stevdart wrote:
So, no, it's not a moot point to set up the gains correctly.  You are not supposed to set everything up by the book and then go and readjust them by using a music source.  You might as well set up your system like a rookie to begin with if you're going to do that.

Sorry for the long delay for a response, I'v been busy installing! Your explaination makes sense, thanks. I regretfully don't have my subs in yet, but did finally get my 6.5" Infninity components in. I still need to install the door panels, but I should have it wrapped up by tomorrow. I'm going to throw out some questions that have come up along the way.

First, I used 1/4" lexan for the 6.5" adaptor plates(originally active 4x6" in the doors), and installed some dynomat(it was cheap) on the adaptor plate itself. Is this really going to do any good? Should I put the remaining on the surrounding door metal?

I'm using a Clarion 50rms x 2 amp to power the components. Is it of any benefit to set the gains as we have talked about for mids/highs? IIRC, the cross-over is set to LP/HP 3.5kHz. Coming from an electronics background, I would have imagine reactance would come into play for the different frequencies. Also, since I do listed to a variety of music types, is it still best to output a flat response for this tuning(even though I may jack the bass, or treble for certain CD's)?

Lastly, I'm not using my rear deck speakers... is it better for me to disconnect them and use '0' fade, or fade full front? Is the front RCA output level-shifted higher when full-front vs '0'?

Thanks for reading,

Jamie

geepherder 
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Joined: October 27, 2003
Posted: December 31, 2005 at 8:10 AM / IP Logged  

For the dynamat, if you have it- definitely do the metal of the doors.

Yes, set the gains as stevdart posted.  A 3.5 kHz crossover point, that sounds like the crossover from the mids to the highs, not the crossover on the amp.  It'll be set to either LP or HP- high pas or low pass.  Start with the same crossover point as your subs (if you're using any)- usually around 80 Hz, high pass instead of low pass.  It's best to set the eq settings (bass/treble) before the gain.  If set properly, you don't need to fool around with it after that.  If you do, you may need to adjust the gains again because it can cause the signal to clip earlier.

If you're not using your rear speakers, remove them to help allow the sub bass into your passenger compartment better.  If you don't have a sub/subs it really doesn't matter.  You won't gain anything from fading it all the way to the front- it'll only make the rears quieter- not the fronts any louder.

My ex once told me I have a perfect face for radio.
slipnfall 
Member - Posts: 36
Member spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 13, 2006 at 11:07 AM / IP Logged  
Well my install is finally finished, for now. I had to replace some lower control arms and tie rods at the same time, which is why it was so delayed. Anyways, I chose a Clarion APA250 2/1 amp, rated for 50Wrms x2. 8AWG wire to the back, with 16awg rockford fosgate speaker wire(it was left-over from my girlfriends shop-install).
Anyways, the setup went well: I thought my Kenwood KDC569 only had 2V outputs, but I was seeing 3Vpk-pk at max. At max volume level(35), with flat eq I had severe clipping... Fortunately the headunit features a volume 'offet': I upped the treble and bass eq by two levels, turned LOUD on, and turned the volume offset up untill I didn't see any clipping. It took 8 levels(the max) of volume offset to cure any clipping. The source was a CD with various frequencies(mainly critical ones: min/max response freq's, crossover cuttoff freq, etc), made with 'Test Tone Generator'.
So after that I was able to get a clean sine wave output, even with the headunit cranked, any frequency. Output voltage was right at 2Vpk-pk. Then to the amp. It didn't take much twiddling of the gain to see clipping... in the end I was able to produce 20Vpk-pk, which by my calc's:
P=I^2*R => (20Vpk-pk/4ohm)^2*4ohm =>100W.
The speakers sound ok, but I don't know if it's the amp, or what, but the mid/bass seems muddy/muffled. I think I should have gone with a higher powered amp also: with it tuned properly, it isn't as loud as I would like, especially considering an aftermarket performance exhaust. I realize I gave myself some headroom in the tuning, so I may try backing off the volume offset to make up for lower-level recordings.
Now I really need a sub. :-)
boardinbum 
Silver - Posts: 358
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 07, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: January 14, 2006 at 3:22 AM / IP Logged  
Sounddomain has some really good prices on some nice Orion 2 channel amps if you're looking for something with a little more power. Check them out here
slipnfall 
Member - Posts: 36
Member spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 14, 2006 at 10:11 AM / IP Logged  
Well I just bought this amp, so I'll stick with it for a while. It only cost me $60 to my door from ebay, which I didn't think was too bad.... brand new 2005 model.
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