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sound stage, imaging in 2 seater


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Steven Kephart 
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 4:12 PM / IP Logged  

A passive crossover is an inline filter.  But it isn't as simple as selecting some parts and throwing them together hoping to get decent results.  Even using textbook alignments won't provide you with very ideal results.  This is because the response of the drivers in their intended locations must be taken into account. 

I was involved in quite a few crossover designs when I worked at Adire.  My boss, Dan would have me build a test enclosure and have me mount the speakers.  He would then take his computer and hardware (the expensive equipment I mention in the other thread), hook it all up to each speaker and measure their individual responses.  He would then use his computer program to design a crossover with those response curves, and try to get the best response with the fewest components.  Then he would hook up his computer again to the speakers and listen to his designed crossover.  After he is happy, he would order the parts, I would build the crossover and we would listen to the final result.

DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 5:22 PM / IP Logged  

Hi there.  Yes, I used to use the Seas RT25A tweeters in my car as they are part of the Lotus Reference set.  These now live in my wife's car and I'm using a set of Eclipse comps (with Vifa drivers) in my new car.  The Seas tweeter should work well with the Extremis in a 2-way setup as it can be crossed over as low as 1700Hz since it has a low fs.  It is a great sounding tweeter (and the Extremis is a great sounding woofer!)  And I agree you really don't need a 3-way set unless you really want to try that.

Steven's comments about crossover design is right on, of course.  A text-book crossover might provide a starting point and in some cases turns out to work fine.  But for example, the Seas tweeter mentioned above has 89.5db sensitivity and the Extremis is 86db, so in addition to a simple crossover network you'll need to pad the tweeter by at least 3db.  If you have the interest and the time to tweak and get it right, crossover design is the most fun part of speaker building IMO.

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shines 
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Joined: March 26, 2006
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 5:32 PM / IP Logged  
Having never taken the easy way out on anything; I will stick it out, learn more about this hobby, and feel good.
1991 honda crx
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shines 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 5:45 PM / IP Logged  
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-E3bSqe7T4fh/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=82600&I=20603KX3
active crossovers?
I'm not sure that the one in the above link is appropriate for my application, but active x-overs appear to be an easier solution.
1991 honda crx
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DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 6:21 PM / IP Logged  
Sure, active is a good way to go.  If you do this you'll need a 4-channel amp for your front stage: 2 channels for the woofers and two channels for the tweeters.  Active crossovers can allow "tweaking" to get the sound balanced properly, plus when done proerly they can increase the SQ and efficiency of a system.  The down side is additional amplifier channels required and increased system complexity and more difficult setup, as well as noise that can be introduced by the crossover.  If it was me, I would not use the particular one in your link.  I'd look at something from Audio Control or a similar company.
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Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 7:00 PM / IP Logged  
You will also probably want an equalizer as well.  Try looking for a processor that includes both to simplify things.  Or you could go to a nice digital processor like this one: http://www.altomobile.com/html/ucs_pro.html  This will get you great control over every aspect of the signal, and do it without possibility of adding noise (well, except for maybe from the converters).  However it will take a lot of time and patience to set up properly. 
shines 
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Member spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 8:07 PM / IP Logged  
I really like the alto mobile UCS; it will work well with my carputer. The only problem is that I can't a usa seller.
1991 honda crx
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stevdart 
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Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: March 28, 2006 at 9:47 PM / IP Logged  

shines wrote:
Having never taken the easy way out on anything; I will stick it out, learn more about this hobby, and feel good.

Here are some links to programs I got from others here in the forum (you've been tralking to some of them!).  Speaker Workshop is a passive crossover design program.  The other programs associated with the FRD can be picked through and chosen, and add as you can or you see fit.   At this point in my speaker-building hobby, I'm getting the enclosure down with Unibox, copying the manufacturer's response and impedance curves using SPL Tracer, and designing the crossover with Speaker Workshop.  The rest of it...I use intuition and whatever knowledge I've gained from all sources.

For a bunch of calculators you can refer to often, as I certainly do, this is where you want to go.  And Rod Elliott has interesting and useful things to say here. 

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 29, 2006 at 2:23 AM / IP Logged  
Hey Steve, one thing I recommend is getting at the very least a cheap RTA software program and mic to meter the speakers rather than using the manufacturers response curves.  The reason for this is those curves are taken anechoic on an IEC baffel, and usually are smoothed quite a bit.  Also the response curve of the mid might not be taken at the same output level as the tweeter which could effect the results even more. 
shines 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: March 26, 2006
Posted: March 29, 2006 at 7:51 AM / IP Logged  
guys,
thanks for all the help. i feel like everything is finally coming together. would this 'system' be more complete with a sub; i want an excuse to copy how steven installed his sub, and a reason to create a new console.
1991 honda crx
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