the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

mecp


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
slipone 
Member - Posts: 46
Member spacespace
Joined: April 20, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 19, 2006 at 11:39 AM / IP Logged  

auex wrote:
josh1979 wrote:
ok i have a question. why do, especially the veteran installers hate on MECP?
We don't hate on it, we just happen to know it is nothing more then a piece of paper. Being certified doesn't really mean a damn thing.

I feel the same way about any type of certification. (A+, MECP, etc.)  But i think it serves as proof.  An installer of 15 years experience applying for a job can show his projects and work (photos, cars).  But installers learning through hobby, like myself, could use the certification to back up their word that "I DO KNOW" what i say i do.  Anyone can say they know this and that, but today, most people's "word" means nothing.

Proudly stuffing large packages into small boxes since 1983.
xtremej 
Gold - Posts: 1,440
Gold spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 24, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 19, 2006 at 12:40 PM / IP Logged  
The reason veteran installers don't put much value with mecp cert. is that many green weenies get their certification and think they know it all as a result. I  can testfy firsthand to this, I had a guy working for me that was a "first class certified installer",  his installs were a ridiculous joke. I spent a lot of time trying to mold him into a decent installer, but you can paint a lemon orange and its still a lemon.  My point is if you don't have any ability to do basic install stuff a certification generally is going to blind you into thinking your an installer when infact you should have gotten a job bagging groceries. I think certification could be a great thing if mandated by a governing body to make sure install shops were adhering rules and regulations when installing. If they are not adhering tot hese rules, pull their certification or fine them something. As it stands now in my area, the certified installers" turn out some really poor work. Lets face it, once a customer has a bad experience with a remote start (or any other installed product) they will probably never get another and more than likely tell their friends not to. I am certified as it does mean something to me but until there is some recourse for shops that are certified and still turn out shi**y work I will not endorse mecp certication. I am sure that this is not the case in everybodys area, but in mine it sure its. Eventually their bad names catch up witht them but it seems to take such a long resulting in such a negative attitude towards anything aftermarket. Just had to throw in my last 2 cents as this issue will rage onnn......
rnemtb 
Copper - Posts: 70
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 23, 2005
Location: New Jersey, United States
Posted: September 19, 2006 at 2:42 PM / IP Logged  
 hello everyone, i got my mecp a year ago.i did installs of head units and amps as hobby.i can not even get an apprenticship in new jersey,which i would prefer to gain more knowledge and experience before doing this as part time job.just because i went to school for thisand got certified,i know i need more hands on experience. most shops in my area want at least three years of shop experience. just goes to show that a piece of paper wont get you a job ,that it is just another step in obtaining more knowledge in this ever growing industry .
rnemtb
djdowdell 
Copper - Posts: 60
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2005
Location: Kentucky, United States
Posted: September 19, 2006 at 4:51 PM / IP Logged  

Melted Fabric wrote:
DJdowdell, what part of California are you moving to?

Fairfield, CA between San Francisco and Sacrmento.

djdowdell 
Copper - Posts: 60
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2005
Location: Kentucky, United States
Posted: September 19, 2006 at 5:00 PM / IP Logged  

rnemtb wrote:
 hello everyone, i got my mecp a year ago.i did installs of head units and amps as hobby.i can not even get an apprenticship in new jersey,which i would prefer to gain more knowledge and experience before doing this as part time job.just because i went to school for thisand got certified,i know i need more hands on experience. most shops in my area want at least three years of shop experience. just goes to show that a piece of paper wont get you a job ,that it is just another step in obtaining more knowledge in this ever growing industry .

That is totally correct. In a nut shell being certified OR experienced means the same thing to the customer-REASSURANCE! So maybe instead of hating on each other how about this solution---All of you guys who are experienced, certified or not, show the "green weenies" how it is done. Share the knowledge and help the industry as a whole because it is NOT about you but the end user who is the consumer. Bad installs affect ALL of us so we should stand together for the good of the industry, that's why in my opinion everyone should be certified just to show some unity in the industry because we need each other and our customers so take care of everyone. But if you chose not to be certified that is your choice but you still have a responsibility to the industry whether you like it or not. So all the grumpy old men show us youngsters how its done, you might learn something too! Together we shall overcome some day!

bellsracer 
Silver - Posts: 703
Silver spacespace
Joined: January 14, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 20, 2006 at 4:05 AM / IP Logged  

The point of the certification is not to show that you know how to install or not, but to prove that you know WHY it works. For example, most installers know how to install a window control module, but in truth, only about 20% know how it works and why. The secret to their abilities lies within not the module but the window motor itself. When pressure is applied to a window motor (such as getting fully closed or opened) it will draw more power (10-15% more depending on motor type [2wire/3wire types most common]) and trip a draw sensor in the module opening a window relay.

Second, it provides the base for understanding fully how arrays of components work thus allowing the installer to maximize the efficiency of the components and systems.

Now experienced shop people know the installs and many veterans know roughly how they work. But with new technologies always coming out, eventually products will exceed the ability and knowledge aquired in shops. Veterans of the shop know their stuff, but to improve what is given to them is what is provided with the MECP (if they COMPLETELY understand the foundation of electronics).

Although Ohms law is the most referenced understanding of electronics, its basis lies within Kirchoff's primary laws and the understanding of fundamental versus scientific current flow.

Even many veterans who have been in the business for years don't pass the test on their first time around on it. Most don't know about the Munsen Curves and how they affect sound. Knowing how the curve works will allow the installer to predict and maximize the output of the sound system and use less energy to do it. The MECP fills in the holes for that ability. We know of a veteran who has been doing it since the 60s and he failed during the first time he went at it.

Combine experience with knowledge (not wisdom) and now the installer is at a level where about 95% of the industry isn't development of technologies. Essentially a non-documented engineer who can create something that will make the 95% of installer's installs easier. That is how most audio companies started.

The MECP is essentially a sped up version of the school of hard knocks without the hard knocks. You'll learn everything needed to know to be safe in the shop and to get the job done. Experience speeds the install up.

In the end, MECP doesn't make one an installer. It's proof that there is enough basic understanding to keep the client's vehicle relatively safe. Experience doesn't mean the installer knows why (s)he does what (s)he does. They just know that it's what they do.

Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.
Melted Fabric 
Silver - Posts: 509
Silver spacespace
Joined: October 24, 2003
Location: California, United States
Posted: September 20, 2006 at 2:51 PM / IP Logged  
bellsracer wrote:

The point of the certification is not to show that you know how to install or not, but to prove that you know WHY it works. For example, most installers know how to install a window control module, but in truth, only about 20% know how it works and why. The secret to their abilities lies within not the module but the window motor itself. When pressure is applied to a window motor (such as getting fully closed or opened) it will draw more power (10-15% more depending on motor type [2wire/3wire types most common]) and trip a draw sensor in the module opening a window relay.

Second, it provides the base for understanding fully how arrays of components work thus allowing the installer to maximize the efficiency of the components and systems.

Now experienced shop people know the installs and many veterans know roughly how they work. But with new technologies always coming out, eventually products will exceed the ability and knowledge aquired in shops. Veterans of the shop know their stuff, but to improve what is given to them is what is provided with the MECP (if they COMPLETELY understand the foundation of electronics).

Although Ohms law is the most referenced understanding of electronics, its basis lies within Kirchoff's primary laws and the understanding of fundamental versus scientific current flow.

Even many veterans who have been in the business for years don't pass the test on their first time around on it. Most don't know about the Munsen Curves and how they affect sound. Knowing how the curve works will allow the installer to predict and maximize the output of the sound system and use less energy to do it. The MECP fills in the holes for that ability. We know of a veteran who has been doing it since the 60s and he failed during the first time he went at it.

Combine experience with knowledge (not wisdom) and now the installer is at a level where about 95% of the industry isn't development of technologies. Essentially a non-documented engineer who can create something that will make the 95% of installer's installs easier. That is how most audio companies started.

The MECP is essentially a sped up version of the school of hard knocks without the hard knocks. You'll learn everything needed to know to be safe in the shop and to get the job done. Experience speeds the install up.

In the end, MECP doesn't make one an installer. It's proof that there is enough basic understanding to keep the client's vehicle relatively safe. Experience doesn't mean the installer knows why (s)he does what (s)he does. They just know that it's what they do.

Well said. I glad you pointed that out, people do that a lot, I have been guilty of it, but I am too analytical for the most part to just do something and not think why or how.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
When you do not know what you are doing and what you are doing is the best -- that is inspiration.
josh1979 
Silver - Posts: 320
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 20, 2006 at 7:13 PM / IP Logged  
bellsracer you hit that one on the nail. i sat down to wright a new post but you said it for me
bring back the rotary phone so i dont have to press 1 to proceed in english
bellsracer 
Silver - Posts: 703
Silver spacespace
Joined: January 14, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 20, 2006 at 9:02 PM / IP Logged  
nouseforaname wrote:

~snip~

and mecp is NOT proof that there is a basic understanding to keep the clients vehicle safe. the only proof for that is experience. i know a 1st class certified installer that caught a customers car on fire which resulted in the car being totaled out, all because he got  a little c**ky referencing his certification as proof he knew what he's doing. last i heard, he's working at some sort of factory, alot of good that nice respectful certification is doing him.

I never said that everything stated applies to everyone. GENERALLY speaking, in any business/form, you will have roughly 20% that are always, 60% that are average, and then there's 20% that is near hopeless.  Like you said, there are some great installers that can't pass the test for their life and then there are great test takers who can't install for their life. There are those that can do both great, and those who can't do either no matter how much they try. It's just one of those little anomilies (sp?) in the mystery of humanity.
Never send your ducks to eagle school.
The difference between ordinary and extraordinary is that little extra.
The 3Ls of life: Learn from the Past, Live for the Present, Look to the Future.
djdowdell 
Copper - Posts: 60
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2005
Location: Kentucky, United States
Posted: September 21, 2006 at 2:11 PM / IP Logged  
bellsracer wrote:

The point of the certification is not to show that you know how to install or not, but to prove that you know WHY it works.

Very well said!!!mecp - Page 3 -- posted image. Before I became certified during my search for a job installing I ran across a lot (meaning almost all in Louisville) shops with guys with years of experience so they had no need for a "green" installer. But these guys were kind enough to conversate with me about some of their installs and the one question that not a single one of them could answer for me was "why did you ____ this way?". That was dumbfounding to me. What if I were the customer and it was my vehicle? If you cant tell me why then I dont want you touching my car because if there were a problem later on how would you convince me it were not your fault? Plus, me personally not knowing something is my biggest fear in life so I always want to know why. So now since I know a little more I can explain to someone why they for example should use 0 gauge wire with that 2000 watt amp instead of 8 or 10 gauge( I've seen it done with my own eyes!) not only safety but getting the most sound for your dollar. So that's why I prefer to be certified and I buy any books or magazines that will help me further my knowledge. Like my pops always says "If you dont know why you are doing it, then why are you doing it?"mecp - Page 3 -- posted image.

Page of 3

Sorry, you can NOT post a reply.
This topic is closed.

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Thursday, March 28, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer