US Amps I/S 4085 VS Eclipse EA4000

mattmc wrote: Thanks for the advice! I definitely know what you mean by our vibing, light, flimsy doors. The door speaker ports are covered in dynamat extreme (3 square feet each) along with a patch directly behind the speaker cone on the inner part of the outer door wall. Would you recommend anything else that could drastically improve the door situation?

More Dynamat... No, seriously. Between my doors alone, (the inside and outside skins, as well as the panel) I have installed a WHOLE BOX (39 square feet) of Dynamat Extreme... It was worth the effort, they close like BMW doors now. <grin> And the road noise is drastically reduced. I also removed the seats from the back, pulled all of the plastic panels I could lay my hands on, and Dynamatted every surface I could touch. Where I couldn't touch, I hosed about a can (and that is not any exaggeration) of DAP weather foam. I put about 20 cans throughout the car... This is really nice, because it is a forever flexible foam. Works especially well... The "A" pillar, the threshold, the "C" pillar, and all of the open space below the "B" pillar (behind the seat-belt mechanism) are also filled with this stuff. The road noise went AWAY! It smelled TERRIBLY for about 2 weeks, ammonia, mostly, (it's latex foam, and that's what is produced as it cures) but I just drove around for a couple of weeks with either the windows down, or the AC recirc off... just put up with the smells of Bakersfield for a little while. Crack the windows when you park, and it'll help let a LOT of it out.

mattmc wrote: I would definitely be willing to buy the XA4000, the articles even further increase it's desireability. Do you think my speakers (with their 90 max wrms fronts, 110 rears) will be able to handle the 125 wrms x 4 amplifier? Will that significantly shorten the life of the speakers? Would there be a chance they'd blow? Is there any method of lowering the output of the amp to better fall in line with the speaker limitations? Will this kind of power render the basslink irrelevant? I know it is not amazing, but do you think it would do a good job at merely filling in the low frequencies?

Appropriate level matching (some people call it gain setting) is the key, here. You could use a 10,000 watt amplifier on those speakers, as long as you match your levels correctly.

mattmc wrote: Regarding the HO alt, is that something I could possibly install myself? If not, what kind of installation rates should I expect? Where is the civic's alternator located? Is the big 3 upgrade difficult to perform on our car? If you have time, I would greatly appreciate a brief overview of the 2001 civic big 3 wiring locations to eliminate some of the guess work. How would just installing this HO alt compare to the standard alt + cap?

If you are reasonably adept with tools, and are willing to put up with a few scrapes, you will be able to do the alternator in the car, no problem. The item I linked to will drop in place, and plug right in. The alternator for that car is (facing the engine bay) on the right end of the engine, all the way down, at the bottom, towards the front. Easy to get to, hard to get out. The power steering pump has to come out, it's in the way. 2 belts, 1 power steering pump, and three bolts to get the alternator out. My first time, it was about an hour long round trip on mine. The #4 lead, I ran from the alternator up to the front bulkhead, by the left headlight, there are many holes and channels above the radiator that you can use to run that cable easily... Make certain you have a 150A fuse on that one too, close to the battery. The cap is a waste of money, don't buy one. All of the electrical energy in your car comes from the alternaotor, first and foremost, as cap will do NOTHING without an adequate power source first. I used Stinger battery terminals, because they had the number of connectors I wanted. 2 nice capscrews on top, for the #4 power cables to the trunk, and two #8 holes with setscrews, one for the accessory fuse block lead, and one for the starter motor. The dual terminal Red-Top Optima provides a side terminal for the alternator input. It can be done! Just gotta do some research to locate the devices you want, exactly.

mattmc wrote: Would you recommend the dynamat trunk kit to seal up the trunk for the basslink? Would that make a sizeable difference?

ANY damping in that car will help. Being an "econobox", Honda kinda skimped a bit on damping of the car... I put two layes of Extreme on my trunk lid, and I was amazed by how much the bass tightened up. Yeah, I'd damp wherever you can put your hands.

mattmc wrote: Thanks for the offer of install tips and suggestions, I would love to benefit from your experience.

NP. Just let me know!It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Good stuff!Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

First off, don't buy another box of Dynamat, I have one I need to get rid of, and I'll make you a smoking deal on it! I bought three, and two of them are presently installed in my car... Can't seem to find a buyer for the other one... I can't take it in the shorts, but I'll do the best I can for you, price-wise! Here's the link to the very product I used. I bought it by the case at Lowe's (maybe Home Peopt... don't remember exactly). I am thinking any large home improvement store should have it. I have not found anything else I like quite as much, this stuff sticks REALLY well, and damps awesome. Easy to install with the tube, clean up is quick as well... Just water. As of now, I am trying to NOT cut, if I don't have to. Sadly, I might have to, finally, as I want to install a pair of Adire Extremis 6.8's into the door right now, and having VERY little luck. Spacers will be mandatory, as will cutting out the inside of the door panel. I'll have to remove some of the ribs that are on the backside of the panel for it to fit. I am still afraid I might even hit the window with these drivers... SOOO deep... Having never heard the Basslink, I can't say for certain. Probably, knowing the Harman group, it'll have pretty good output. How deep will it go? Couldn't say, perhaps some other members could have a little bit of input there. Another nice part about the amp you are considering, is the crossovers will allow you to match the bottom frequency of the highs, to the top frequency of the subwoofer system... Nice. The terminals, I'll have to look again. I can't remember completely which brand or model I have in there. I checked the Stinger site, and there is nothing even similar there anymore, so I'll look again and get brand names. The battery is an upgrade, I stuffed a group 45 in there. Tight, but it fit. The Civic stock battery is (I think) a group 42. Stick with the red top, they are better for car stereo, UNLESS you are planning on lots of parking lot listening time, where a deep cycle (yellow top) will serve you better and last longer. If parking lot is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN for you, then the red top is my strong recommendation. The OEM cables are #8, (they are the two white cables attached to your OEM setup) and one of them goes to the starter motor, and the other one goes to the main fuse block, under the hood. You need a positive terminal with provisions for these two cables. I searched long and hard to find these. I'll try to get pictures of my distribution system as it is now, and post them up for you to see what I am talking about. The Optima battery I chose has top and GM side posts, a perfect connection point for the alternator cable, which will simply connect between your alternator output post and the positive terminal on the battery. Here, again, I built my own cables, manufactured the terminals, all connections are soldered and machined. I will always overbuild whenever possible.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Thanks for all of your great advice, it was thoroughly informative and enjoyable.

haemphyst wrote: First off, don't buy another box of Dynamat, I have one I need to get rid of, and I'll make you a smoking deal on it! I bought three, and two of them are presently installed in my car... Can't seem to find a buyer for the other one... I can't take it in the shorts, but I'll do the best I can for you, price-wise!

Sounds great!  Thanks for the opportunity.  I'll PM you for details.

haemphyst wrote: Here's the link to the very product I used. I bought it by the case at Lowe's (maybe Home Peopt... don't remember exactly). I am thinking any large home improvement store should have it. I have not found anything else I like quite as much, this stuff sticks REALLY well, and damps awesome. Easy to install with the tube, clean up is quick as well... Just water.

I'll definitely pick up a case of that, thanks for the link.

haemphyst wrote: As of now, I am trying to NOT cut, if I don't have to. Sadly, I might have to, finally, as I want to install a pair of Adire Extremis 6.8's into the door right now, and having VERY little luck. Spacers will be mandatory, as will cutting out the inside of the door panel. I'll have to remove some of the ribs that are on the backside of the panel for it to fit. I am still afraid I might even hit the window with these drivers... SOOO deep...

Those are some very nice speakers.  They will definitely bring the lower frequencies up front.  What amp will you be powering them with?  I would be interested to hear what you are using as a spacer and how you plan on strengthening the door panels after they're cut.

haemphyst wrote: Having never heard the Basslink, I can't say for certain. Probably, knowing the Harman group, it'll have pretty good output. How deep will it go? Couldn't say, perhaps some other members could have a little bit of input there. Another nice part about the amp you are considering, is the crossovers will allow you to match the bottom frequency of the highs, to the top frequency of the subwoofer system... Nice.

As far as matching frequencies: if the sub is rated to 20-120 Hz and the 6x9's are rated down to 35 Hz, what is the ideal match?  limiting the 6x9's to above 120 Hz?  Or going to a middle ground, say limiting the sub up to 80 Hz while limiting the 6x9's down to 80Hz?  How might the 6.5" door speakers fit into all of this?  They are rated down to 45 Hz.  Do I match them to the sub too?  Please explain further if I have completely missed the boat.

haemphyst wrote: The terminals, I'll have to look again. I can't remember completely which brand or model I have in there. I checked the Stinger site, and there is nothing even similar there anymore, so I'll look again and get brand names. The battery is an upgrade, I stuffed a group 45 in there. Tight, but it fit. The Civic stock battery is (I think) a group 42. Stick with the red top, they are better for car stereo, UNLESS you are planning on lots of parking lot listening time, where a deep cycle (yellow top) will serve you better and last longer. If parking lot is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN for you, then the red top is my strong recommendation.

Thanks for the recommendation, so you think I should upgrade my battery immediately upon installation?  Forgive me but I am still a newbie.  So the terminals are upgrades to the actual upgraded battery? 

haemphyst wrote: The OEM cables are #8, (they are the two white cables attached to your OEM setup) and one of them goes to the starter motor, and the other one goes to the main fuse block, under the hood. You need a positive terminal with provisions for these two cables.

What do you mean by a positive terminal "with provisions?"  Should I upgrade different connectors on the main fuse block?  So the big three upgrade alternator power cable does not go straight from the alternator to the positive on the battery?  It needs to be added to the main fuse block?  Do additional modifications need to be made to the fuse block?

haemphyst wrote: I searched long and hard to find these. I'll try to get pictures of my distribution system as it is now, and post them up for you to see what I am talking about.

That would be very helpful, I am interested in the wiring setup but it is hard for me to visualize.  How many amps is your system drawing from your alternator?

haemphyst wrote: The Optima battery I chose has top and GM side posts, a perfect connection point for the alternator cable, which will simply connect between your alternator output post and the positive terminal on the battery. Here, again, I built my own cables, manufactured the terminals, all connections are soldered and machined. I will always overbuild whenever possible.

That sounds very adventurous.  What do you mean by having all of your connections "machined?"  Would you recommend a similar path for my system?  Or is my current draw a lot lower than yours so stock connectors are fine?

As far as setting the 125 x 4 wrms amp to the 2-90 wrms speakers, is it simply the gain that is adjusted to limit the power?  Or is there a fundamental rule that I am oblivious to?  Any additional explanation would be greatly appreciated.

Do you use any method of protecting the speakers in the doors?  I have read about "baffles" which are installed behind the speaker to keep it free of water and dust.  They are also supposed to give the speakers "tighter bass."  Would they possibly cause the speakers to overheat?

When I installed the 6x9's in the rear, they were so deep I had to uninstall the tension bars that allow the trunk to function properly.  So for the past couple years the trunk is just a dead weight.  I have been using a tennis racket to prop it up during everyday use.  I have thought of installing two of those hydraulic arms that most cars use for their trunks, althought it would be a complicated fabrication.  The other thought is taking the speakers out of the rear ports (as they have poor imaging since they point straight up) and placing them in enclosures wedged inbetween the rear glass and the plastic deck behind the rear seats.  Do you have any thoughts on the issue?

Thanks again!  I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

Not forgetting about you... I'll answer tonight. Right now, though, here is my present system: 2001 Honda Civic LX Eclipse 8445 E8 deck Eclipse 3122 driving Infinity emit Kappa tweeters 55w X 2 Eclipse 34230 driving Morel MW-162 6" midbass in doors 550w X 2 Eclipse DA7122 driving Eclipse SW9122 12" Titanium sub 1000w X 2 165A alternator from www.4alterstart.com RedTop Optima 12v under the hood 2 RedTop Optima 6v in trunk, one each side wired in series 2 Rockford Fosgate 1 Farad caps on custom hand built power barsIt all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

That looks like quite a system!  At the size of that, it makes me think I can get by with 700 wrms on my stock 70 amp alternator.   I'm very curious what that system would sound like.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: As of now, I am trying to NOT cut, if I don't have to. Sadly, I might have to, finally, as I want to install a pair of Adire Extremis 6.8's into the door right now, and having VERY little luck. Spacers will be mandatory, as will cutting out the inside of the door panel. I'll have to remove some of the ribs that are on the backside of the panel for it to fit. I am still afraid I might even hit the window with these drivers... SOOO deep... Those are some very nice speakers. They will definitely bring the lower frequencies up front. What amp will you be powering them with? I would be interested to hear what you are using as a spacer and how you plan on strengthening the door panels after they're cut.

They are sweet speakers. I was really torn between that one and the Tang-Band 7. I thought the Tang-Band might have gone a bit deeper with a little more ease, and possibly more authority... I'm planning on (actually hoping for) a crossover frequency of around 50Hz. I like mid-BASS. To me, a subwoofer should be just that - SUB. It should only be heard and experienced, never locatable. Those two drivers use (basically) the same motor structure, so it really wouldn't have mattered which I was going to use, they are both REALLY deep. As far as reinforcing or strengthening, I'm not really sure how much will actually be necessary. The ribs I am referring to are inside of the door panel, they form a "cup" into which the speakers sorta "fit". Because of the mandatory spacers, and the size of the driver's basket in general, they'll have to go. The driver simply won't fit at all, behind the door panel with them present... Hello, Dremel! As far as spacers, I have many friends with manufacturing facilities of various ilks. This job will go to my buddy Dave, he and his sister own a sign shop, with a 4X8 foot XY router table. He can cut stuff out to a gnats arse tolerances. It'll be nice, cause I can have him embed nuts INTO the material, for solid istallation stability. Probably just use MDF, it seems to work well, and will provide acceptable damping, also. The amp I'll be using is the Eclipse 34230 Stereo amplifer of a few years ago. It's max rating is 1100 watts, but that's into 2 ohms, and as I said, peak. 4 ohms RMS is 370 watts per channel, and the Adires are 8 ohm drivers, so I'll be beating them with between 180 and 200 watts each, RMS. That's plenty, I think.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: Having never heard the Basslink, I can't say for certain. Probably, knowing the Harman group, it'll have pretty good output. How deep will it go? Couldn't say, perhaps some other members could have a little bit of input there. Another nice part about the amp you are considering, is the crossovers will allow you to match the bottom frequency of the highs, to the top frequency of the subwoofer system... Nice. As far as matching frequencies: if the sub is rated to 20-120 Hz and the 6x9's are rated down to 35 Hz, what is the ideal match? limiting the 6x9's to above 120 Hz? Or going to a middle ground, say limiting the sub up to 80 Hz while limiting the 6x9's down to 80Hz? How might the 6.5" door speakers fit into all of this? They are rated down to 45 Hz. Do I match them to the sub too? Please explain further if I have completely missed the boat.

I'd look for something in the 80, possibly 100Hz range. You said you were looking SPECIFICALLY for SQ, so IMO, the lower the better. A higher XO frequency can smear your image (abit, but still...) by being "addressable". What I mean by that is you can more easily pinpoint WHERE the sub is... Lower is better, but you can only go so low, especially with a "pre-built" subwoofer system.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: The terminals, I'll have to look again. I can't remember completely which brand or model I have in there. I checked the Stinger site, and there is nothing even similar there anymore, so I'll look again and get brand names. The battery is an upgrade, I stuffed a group 45 in there. Tight, but it fit. The Civic stock battery is (I think) a group 42. Stick with the red top, they are better for car stereo, UNLESS you are planning on lots of parking lot listening time, where a deep cycle (yellow top) will serve you better and last longer. If parking lot is something that DOES NOT HAPPEN for you, then the red top is my strong recommendation. Thanks for the recommendation, so you think I should upgrade my battery immediately upon installation? Forgive me but I am still a newbie. So the terminals are upgrades to the actual upgraded battery?

I did. A battery could be one of the best upgrades you can make to a modest system such as you are planning. Eventually, I'd seriously consider a high-output alternator, but for right now, since you are adding such a (relatively) small system you should be able to get away with the stocker for now. The battery terminals were not mandatory, I could have just dropped the red-top in, and connected everything OEM to the top post, and dragged the system power off the sides, but I like the look of the bigger terminals, and I like the mechanical reliability as well.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: The OEM cables are #8, (they are the two white cables attached to your OEM setup) and one of them goes to the starter motor, and the other one goes to the main fuse block, under the hood. You need a positive terminal with provisions for these two cables. What do you mean by a positive terminal "with provisions?" Should I upgrade different connectors on the main fuse block? So the big three upgrade alternator power cable does not go straight from the alternator to the positive on the battery? It needs to be added to the main fuse block? Do additional modifications need to be made to the fuse block?

Basically all I mean by that is IF you buy aftermarket terminals, it's best just to look for terminals with enough holes to accommodate all of the cables your car has. There are two in our car. One of them comes from the fuse block, and it is also the charging cable from the alternator, and another goes to the starter motor. Inside your fuse block, you will see an 80A fuse - that's the protective fuse from the alternator. Apparently, Honda really doesn't want people overworking the alernator. A good thing, really, as it'll provide for reliability of the alternator, and a good indication to the owner that they are adding more accessories than the car was ever meant to have attached! Mods to the fuse block are optional, and pretty much unnecessary. I just disconnected the alternator cable from the block, and it is pushed up underneath so as not to get in the way. It's not being used right now, as I have a #4 from the alternator to the battery, direct.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: I searched long and hard to find these. I'll try to get pictures of my distribution system as it is now, and post them up for you to see what I am talking about. That would be very helpful, I am interested in the wiring setup but it is hard for me to visualize. How many amps is your system drawing from your alternator?

OK, the pics came out REALLY crappy, so I'll try to get better ones later. Or, if you make it to Bako, as you suggested you might in your PM to me, we can just go over it then. As far as actual current draw? The ammeter in my dash has never gone over 115A, at night, with the AC on. My guess is about 70 to 80 amps. That meter is installed right in the #4 between the alternator and the battery, so it monitors TOTAL current, for the whole car. The AC seems to pull about 25-30A, lights about 18-20A, and the engine itself about 9A.

mattmc wrote: haemphyst wrote: The Optima battery I chose has top and GM side posts, a perfect connection point for the alternator cable, which will simply connect between your alternator output post and the positive terminal on the battery. Here, again, I built my own cables, manufactured the terminals, all connections are soldered and machined. I will always overbuild whenever possible. That sounds very adventurous. What do you mean by having all of your connections "machined?" Would you recommend a similar path for my system? Or is my current draw a lot lower than yours so stock connectors are fine? As far as setting the 125 x 4 wrms amp to the 2-90 wrms speakers, is it simply the gain that is adjusted to limit the power? Or is there a fundamental rule that I am oblivious to? Any additional explanation would be greatly appreciated. Do you use any method of protecting the speakers in the doors? I have read about "baffles" which are installed behind the speaker to keep it free of water and dust. They are also supposed to give the speakers "tighter bass." Would they possibly cause the speakers to overheat? When I installed the 6x9's in the rear, they were so deep I had to uninstall the tension bars that allow the trunk to function properly. So for the past couple years the trunk is just a dead weight. I have been using a tennis racket to prop it up during everyday use. I have thought of installing two of those hydraulic arms that most cars use for their trunks, althought it would be a complicated fabrication. The other thought is taking the speakers out of the rear ports (as they have poor imaging since they point straight up) and placing them in enclosures wedged inbetween the rear glass and the plastic deck behind the rear seats. Do you have any thoughts on the issue? Thanks again! I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

What I mean by machined, is I built them myself. I hate having to go to a place, plunk down my "hard earneds" and settle for something for my system that is mass produced and designed to fit as wide a spectrum of applications as there are car owners... So I build my own stuff. It takes FAR longer, but the money is comparable, and I make sure the quality is top notch. I like "finger-in-a-nose" kind of compatibility, and the only way, sometimes, is to build your own. As far as doing it for yours? Anything could be better than OEM, cheezy, crimp-on stuff. It takes you to demand it be better. Would I do it again? Yep. Should you do it? Go for it. Just be prepared for a lot of work... 'cause there is. An amplifier, just because it CAN make 125WPC, doesn't mean it WILL make 125WPC. The output power is dictated by how much driving signal (from your head unit) is getting to the output stages OF the amp. This is where the "gain control" comes in. It's really a level matching device, the gain of an amp is actually fixed, and determined by the manufacturer. What you are erally looking for is to match the amplifer's output yo your HU's output, so the amp can only ever make 90wpc, continuously. You are NOT wasting 35 watts per channel, though. Music, being dynamic CAN have that amp make the full 125 watts, and this is simply headroon, and you can run more continuous power, with less chance of clipping, overall. Headroom is a good thing, just accept it, and enjoy... The door speakers COULD get baffles, if you wanted. Mine won't have them. Neither a fan or not of them, I think they are application specific, and some applications might benefit, others, not so much... As far as the back speakers, I removed mine completely. (And am selling them, BTW) This new system iteration has no rear-fill drawn in. I am spending so much time and energy doing this one right, I don't think I'll need it at all. Overall, I'm not a big fan of rear speakers, that's why they came out. Yeah, the trunk lid... I've been trying to figure out how to drop hydraulic lifts in there as well. It was on my drawing board a couple years ago, when the first system went in, and I couldn't ever see a way of it happening in a glamorous way, so I dropped it for then. I now have a welder, and I think I could make something work much better now, as well as improve the reliability of such a conversion, dramatically.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."