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4 channel Amp


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maxmodder 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 1:08 AM / IP Logged  

Ok, this deals with a 04 Mitsubishi Diamante that had the infinity sound system.

Here are the new components:

Kenwood head unit with 3 sets of amp pre outs
Alpine MRP-F250 4 channel amp
Alpine MRP-F450 1 channel amp (bridged)

Pair of Alpine 12" Single-Voice-Coil 4-Ohm Subwoofers Model: SWE-1242

Pioneer 6" x 9" 3-Way Car Speakers with Polypropylene Cones (Pair) Model: TS-A6971R

Pioneer 6-1/2" 3-Way Car Speakers with Polypropylene Cones (Pair) Model: TS-A1671R

It also uses the factory tweeters and 3 1/2 in the dash.  The tweeter and 3 1/2 are wired together from the factory.  Details on how the factory wiring was can be found here:

http://www.jivegraphics.com/diamante/ampwires.html

Basically, I hooked up the 2 sets of red on whites together and the 2 sets of red on blacks together and hooked them into channel 1 on the amp.  I'm using the factory wiring that went to the door for the new pioneer 6 1/2's.  I did the same for the left side of the car and hooked it into channel 2.  So basically on each of the 2 channels, I have 75w RMS being split between 1 tweeter, a 3 1/2, and a 6 1/2.  Channels 3 and 4 are being used by the 6x9.  My problem is that the 6 1/2's are producing very little base.  The factory speakers infact produced more base.  Is this because of my wiring or because of a HP or LP filter?  On the amp what Hz should I set my front speakers (tweeter, door, and 3 1/2 dash) and what Hz should I set the rears to?  Also on the head uints what should I set the HP and LP filters for on the fronts and the rear 6x9's?  The reason why I have 3 speakers going into 1 channel is because thats the way it was wired from the factory into the factory amp.  Could that factory amp be a 6 channel amp, or did the factory set it up the way I am now with my aftermarket amp?

Thanks

caraudio904 
Copper - Posts: 115
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: August 30, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 4:17 AM / IP Logged  

If you have a four channel amp use all four channels. One door one channel other door other channel an so on...... put your highs amp on HP. DO NOT try to get bass out of those door speakers. Mid range an highs only. Factory amps are wired for a specific ohms rating. yours is not designed for that.

Southern Stylez
Jacksonville, FL 32218
maxmodder 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 10:18 AM / IP Logged  

The car has 8 speakers if you don't include the subs.

3 1/2 Left    + -  (wire set 1)

3 1/2 Right  + - (wire set 2)
6 1/2 door left + - (wire set 3)
6 1/2 door right + - (wire set 4)
tweeter door left + - (wire set 1)
tweeter door right + - (wire set 2)
6x9 left + - (wire set 5)
6x9 right + - (wire set 6)

The 3 1/2's and the tweeters both share the same + and the same - wire.  That wiring is all up under the dash and I'm not going to run new wire and separate them.  The doors have thier own - and + wires.

thats 6 sets of + and - wires altogether

My amp is only 4 channel.  Of the 6 sets, which senerio is better so that my door speakers sound like they are supposed to sound? 

Set 1 and 2 on channel 1

Set 3 and 4 on channel 2
set 5 on channel 3
set 6 on channel 4

or

Set 1 and 3 on channel 1
Set 2 and 4 on channel 2
set 5 on channel 3
set 6 on channel 4

or

run set 1 and 2 to the head unit and use the amp for the rest?

Flakman 
Copper - Posts: 365
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Posted: September 28, 2006 at 10:27 AM / IP Logged  

maxmodder wrote:

It also uses the factory tweeters and 3 1/2 in the dash.  The tweeter and 3 1/2 are wired together from the factory.  Details on how the factory wiring was can be found here:

If by this you mean that you have wired the car's stock speakers along with the 3 way speakers and are running them off of the first two channels of your amp, this could be a problem. Also, how are the new 3 ways mounted? If they are not sealed well from the listening compartment you will get cancellation.

As far as bass goes, you can get bass from mids, you won't get sub bass. If the speakers are good and have are enclosed properly, they can give you very good bass response.

It sounds like you are running the tweet, 3.5, and 6.5 all in parallel...I'm suprised the amp isn't going into protect mode. Even if the stock speakers were at 6 ohm each that would bring the impedence down below 2 ohms unless the 6.5 is in series with the parallel tweet/3/5 combination. If this is the case, the tweet and 3.5 are 4 ohm each, they may be getting more power from the amp as they are sitting at a 2 ohm load and taking 2/3 of the amps output where the 6.5 is sitting at 4 ohms and getting only 1/3 of the output.

Long story short (too late), if the 6.5" are mounted good, I, too would start by disconnecting the tweet/3.5" combination and leave only the 6.5 and see how it sounds then.

The Flakman
I feel strange. I have deja vu and amnesia at the same time.
John | Manteca, CA
maxmodder 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 11:01 AM / IP Logged  

[quote]If by this you mean that you have wired the car's stock speakers along with the 3 way speakers and are running them off of the first two channels of your amp, this could be a problem.[/quote]

That is excatly how they are being ran.  This is how the installer at a local best Buy told me to run them......no wonder! The 3 ways in the doors are mounted flush.  It's definately a Ohm related issue as you have stated as to why the 3 ways are underpowered.  If I disconnect the tweets and the dash and it causes the door speakers to sound perfect, what would you suggest I do to power up the tweets and 3 1/2's?  I don't know where the set of wires for each combine, and hardwiring them to either another amp or to the head unit itself would be a pain.  I will find out how the factory setup is wired be it series or parrallel.  That should provide more insight as to what i have to do. 

Thanks for the reply!

saxophonemn 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 1:35 PM / IP Logged  
I did something very similar. With the infinity sound system when you reconfigure you have to have the tweeters that are higher up working otherwise the sound stage is lowered. However the head unit really can't power more than four speakers. However on my old van I was able to power the 6x8's with the 5.25" with no problem, yet I had a very powerful deck.
OYE VEY being seen and heard!
Flakman 
Copper - Posts: 365
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 25, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 3:15 PM / IP Logged  

Personally, I would set the front stage with just your aftermarket speakers. It would be easier to set good staging and the SQ would be better.

If you feel you really want the stocks connected, I would run the tweet/3.5" combination in series from the HU. You probably can't (and if you can, shouldn't, I think) run them parallel off of the HU. I don't know of any that can handle 2 ohm loads, plus, you don't want that much heat around your HU even if it could handle it. I'd connect them as follows:

Option 2 (series) = 8 ohm load
Speakers wired in series

4 channel Amp -- posted image.

I may be missing some other available option somewhere. But that's my 2˘.

The Flakman
I feel strange. I have deja vu and amnesia at the same time.
John | Manteca, CA
maxmodder 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 3:58 PM / IP Logged  

How would I tell if the 3.5/tweet combination is wired in series or parallel from the factory?  Is there a tecnique to use when you can't see how the wires are connected?  At some point, they are hooked upto a crossover of some sort located behind the dash.  The + and - wire that controls both of them then runs to the trunk where the factory amp was mounted on the rear deck.  This is the + BLACK/ red and - RED / white wire.  (There's another + BLACK/ red and - RED / white wire that comes from the harness but that leads right to the aftermarket door speakers that I installed) Is it safe to assume that the are 3.5/tweet come from the factory connected in series?  If so, I can just run speaker wire from the factory wire that comes out of the harness in the trunk upto the head unit so I dont have to worry about running wires from the tweeter through the door.  I'll put a multimeter on each of the factory speakers to see what the resistance is.  Whats your best guess as to how the factory wires the system as far as how the tweet/3.5 is ran along with the factory 6 1/2's?  My guess is that the factory amp is a 4 channel amp.  Could I be wrong?

maxmodder 
Member - Posts: 30
Member spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 4:27 PM / IP Logged  
If I disconnect the tweeter and the dash stops working as well, is it safe to assume that they are wired in series?  The only way it could be ran in parallel is if the dash kept working with the tweeter disconnected, correct?  Makes sense to me!
Flakman 
Copper - Posts: 365
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 25, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: September 28, 2006 at 6:44 PM / IP Logged  

Your logic makes sense. I just don't know how the x-over would factor into that.

Anyone know what the impedence is for the stock component set for this Diamante? This will help determine what can be done. My preference is still to disconnect the components, or run them off of the HU if the impedence is okay. Hopefully someone can answer that one.

The Flakman
I feel strange. I have deja vu and amnesia at the same time.
John | Manteca, CA
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