the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

should installers have a union?


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
easterly81 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 02, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: April 26, 2007 at 9:18 PM / IP Logged  

Does anyone else out there thing at installers should have a union?  I have been in the business for 8 years now and it seem ever since "Free Install"  the installers wages have been decreasing.  I mean its kind of crazy since  our job keeps becoming  more and more demanding with newer technologies.  It just seems a lot of companies would rather hire young untalented people for less money and you all know the end result of that thinking.  I just think that installers should be paid and respected more.  Would do you think???

the12volt 
Administrator - Posts: 3,951
Administrator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 07, 2002
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: April 26, 2007 at 9:50 PM / IP Logged  

No, I don't think there should be a union for installers. The desire for better pay and respect does not warrant the need for a union. There are lots of opportunities out there, but you'll have to find them, even if it means moving. We were all young unexperienced people (some more talented than others). If you're unhappy with your present income/employer and you truly love being an installer, then move on if you wish to pursue it. Yes, I believe some should probably be paid more and I also believe some should probably be paid less.  BTW, I've been in this business since 1976, you do the math ;)

should installers have a union? -- posted image. the12volt • Support the12volt.com
sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: April 27, 2007 at 12:44 AM / IP Logged  

easterly81 wrote:
  I have been in the business for 8 years now and it seem ever since "Free Install"  the installers wages have been decreasing.

Do customers actually believe there is a such thing as "Free Installation?"

There is this shop up from my house with a giant blinking neon "HOME OF THE 1 DOLLAR INSTALL" .. quite literally the sticker prices in there are like 20% ABOVE retail.  Like they're charging $700 for Boston Pros.  With or without the install.  "It's included" I was told.

easterly81 wrote:
It just seems a lot of companies would rather hire young untalented people for less money and you all know the end result of that thinking.

Ya know I think this really hits on it.  There are *alot* of kids willing to do this stuff for pennies because it is so much fun.  However, I would disagree with the position that they are untalented...  to be honest... the *best* installer I've ever met.. the guy that taught me cars... was doing competetion quality stuff before he got his drivers liscense.  This skill is very much an art.  Its like a piano right.. some people can just "play."

the12volt wrote:
The desire for better pay and respect does not warrant the need for a union. 

Unions are certainly a tough can of worms in any situation...  here I would argue here that the trend toward commoditzation of the industry really does preclude a realisic chance at a union forming.  The workforce needs to be highly skilled for unions to have a realistic chance of the leverage they would require... nevermind the exceptionally disparte network of dealers and shops that make up this market niche.

It would take a larger body, more representative of the electronics industry in general, like the CEA, to really pull something like this off... but the resulting alienation from business owners would render the organization moot..

I dunno I've taken to many econ classes this semester don't mind me.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
Hymer 
Silver - Posts: 695
Silver spacespace
Joined: November 20, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: April 27, 2007 at 3:09 PM / IP Logged  
Unions tend only to work when the employees the represent are under a contract withe BIG company. The only eception to this is probably the electrical workers union, and that is basiccally a safty issue with construction and the fact that you need to have a license to do the work. A union in our industry would not do any good due to the number of mom and pop shops. They can never afford a union, face it very few people are getting "rich" of this stuff, sure you can make a good living, BUT it is a struggle. I do agree with you that to many good installers are underpaid, and a lot of really bad ones are overpaid, but you can thank places like best buy and ckt city for that type of stuff [no offence meant for the guys who work there, more a corperate bash meant!]   When you are selling product at a below minimum price because you buy a ton of units, then give away the install, well thats what happens, the mom and pops have to pay more for a quality product installed buy a higher [or lower paid], but highly skilled installer, thus leaving that shop out in the cold as far as much of a profit margin. The one stop, get all type of places [wally world, best buy ect..] have killed small business accross the US Iv'e watchewd it in my own town over tha past ten years, it really is sad. No more can you go down to a shop and ask a guy a question, and actually get an answer! Just a blank stare. The only way to combat it is NOT to shop at any of these types of stores, boycott them! as hard as it may be to do, help america kill wall mart!
Tire Proz Stillwater Mn
High End Restyling and Comlete Repair
forbidden 
Platinum - Posts: 5,352
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: November 01, 2003
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posted: April 27, 2007 at 10:11 PM / IP Logged  

A union would not necessarily apply to the mom and pop shops, like mine for example. I have the choice to hire that person and what to pay that person. Now for the big box butcher, that is a different story. If those employees of the big box do get unionized, they could cripple the big box in one fell swoop. Perhaps a union in the big box is a good thing, it would most definitely end "free installation" almost overnight as the clout of the union would no doubt be falling hard on the cheque signers......  Good pay is commensurate with good work.

Top Secret, I can tell you but then my wife will kill me.
lspker 
Silver - Posts: 503
Silver spacespace
Joined: November 23, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: April 27, 2007 at 11:25 PM / IP Logged  
I've heard the some installers are members of the Telephone and  Communication workers union.  Problem being most shops don't have enough employees to unionize, of course big box stores do, and they desreve union workers.  If you keep your installer happy (and ego in check) they won't need a union.
extreme1 
Silver - Posts: 1,070
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 12, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: April 28, 2007 at 2:08 PM / IP Logged  
Unions are for people who don't command what they're worth or people that think they;re worth more than they are. Socialist thinking.
Shaughn Murley
Install Manager, Dealer Services
Visions Electronics
Red Deer, Alberta
tragik 
Copper - Posts: 169
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 28, 2005
Location: Alaska, United States
Posted: April 28, 2007 at 6:09 PM / IP Logged  
An installer can make a very decent wage in this industry. The trick, as I have found it, is to be really good at what you do. Be fast, clean, and consistent, and you should do just fine. Also, once you get to that point, work for a shop that does a high volume and pays commission instead of an hourly rate. In Alaska it is not uncommon for an experienced installer who can install remote starts to make 600 to 800 dollars a day during the winter. Before I opened my own shop, I was pulling $60k+ per year. Unions lock you into a wage, which can work against those of us who would make more money on commision.
Northstart.....or start it your damn self.
speakermakers 
Copper - Posts: 231
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 02, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: April 28, 2007 at 10:05 PM / IP Logged  
I am a firm believer in survival of the fittest.
The car audio industry is still fairly new. It has been around longer than most of us have been alive but it wasn’t until the early 90s when big bass hit the scene on a large scale that it has really taken off. Then it hit the TV shows and exploded.
All industries evolve in phases that take years to happen. These phases are dictated by things like current technology, global manufacturing economy, publics perceptions, affiliated technologies (MP3, Bluetooth, data buses, etc), and demand. Right now the car audio industry is once again reshaping its self due to big box stores, TV shows, and consequently very high demand.
The free install and uneducated installer thing is currently hitting the big box stores hard right now. They have tipped the scales of our industries economy and its coming back to haunt them. Most stores have resorted to black listing difficult vehicles due to law suits and unhappy customers. Vehicle manufactures are planning on incorporating data bus systems, HAVC, onboard DSP just to name a few into every vehicle. That spells out big problems for the big box stores and I love it! Two big box stores in my area have dropped car audio due to this. Consequently my business has increased substantially. I say let them fall on their faces, and don’t try to compete with them. Sell real performance oriented equipment (EQ’s, big amps, custom labor, components). The big box stores can’t touch that stuff.
The answer to installers uniting and getting paid more I believe will eventually happen whether we want it to or not. But a union is not the answer. Better education is the answer. What we need is something along the lines of MECP but much much better. I think MECP is a great idea that simply dose not work currently.
Eventually all vehicles will on average become difficult enough to install in that either the general public will become aware that they must seek a truly qualified installer that might cost more or the government will step in due to safety issues and mandate a certification. Either way the installer median wage will increase.
easterly81 
Member - Posts: 4
Member spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: February 02, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: April 29, 2007 at 12:34 AM / IP Logged  
I was talking about manly big box stores, sorry i guess i should have said only big box retail.  I work for a big box store that has a good crew but im working for a company who is  a large group of hacks.  Maybe im just bitchin I make good money but more is always better.  Ture big box hurts mom and pop,but  I dont want to kill mom and pop stores if anything the more time and money intensive cars I send to the mom and pop store down the street, which we have a really good relationship with.  I just hate the perception that car audio is not a technical job.  I agree i think i should move on and leave the big box i dont like the idea that im supporting them
Page of 2

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Tuesday, October 19, 2021 • Copyright © 1999-2021 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer