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Transmission Destroyed By Python 871xp


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KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,526
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 4:04 PM / IP Logged  
mabuffalo wrote:

I always appreciate your thoughts and observations, KPierson. But one mans 'high' is another mans, well, not so high. I drive 12-volt signals through 75-125K impedance all the time and don't consider this high. For my brain stimulation work the nominal impendance is around 30K, but we can still deliver precisely regulated DC pulses in the microamp range when the impedance rises, as it often does, to the 100K range. For my work you have to hit the megaohm range before I would consider it a functionally isolated circuit. So, I'm not impressed with the DEI equipment. It's probably adequate for automotive work, but it's way out of range for most scientific work (including the space shuttle).

I haven't pulled the DEI unit out of my vehicle to bench test it yet. I did have to replace the battery in the remote, however. I noticed the day I went to court that the remote had a range of only about 50 yards in an open parking lot (well under the DEI specification) and suspected (hoped) the battery was bad. It was and I tried to open the battery compartment only to have the case split in half at the seam and the circuit board fly out across the floor. The glue they used on the case was weaker than the press-fit on the battery compartment door. Also, note the battery failed after less than 3 months of occasional use (defective, I presume, eh, hope).

I know that DEI never produces a lemon, but gee, I still suspect the unit could be bad. Unfortuantely, neither DEI nor Circuit City would look at it. Perhaps if they did they WOULD have to assume responsibility for my transmission failure.

Finally, it's interesting that the tach wire ties into a monostable vibrator. I told the judge that I suspect that the misconnected wire would have to drive the PCM into an astable mode resulting in oscillation to cause the damage to my transmission. (Remember, the Ford transmission has a fail-safe mode that locks it into 2nd gear if their is an electronics problem.) This was of course above his head (and my M.A. from RPI including coursework in biomedical engineering less 'expertise' than a two-week mail-order certificate that the installer probably even lacked -- OK, that was low, but I am a little psssssd). More on the court case later . . .

Cheers,

The 100K ohm resistor would limit current to 1/10th of 1 mA (0.0001A).  For all intents and purposes no load at all on the signal.  I browsed the data sheet for the component listed above but was unable to determine the actual components input impedence.

Keep in mind that the monostable vibrator fed the control units INTERNAL processor.  There is absolutely no way the output of the monostable vibrator could have backfed and caused the tranny to act erractically. 

Kevin Pierson
mabuffalo 
Copper - Posts: 63
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: June 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 4:12 PM / IP Logged  
Yes, I did the math too. A 120 uA current is significant in my work, but I understand it's too small to affect anything in the automotive circuit. Again, I assumed the two events are related (i.e., the alarm/remote start installation and the transmission failure) because of probability theory and the type of malfunction, so I'm probing for a possible mechanism.
MABuffalo
KarTuneMan 
Platinum - Posts: 7,056
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: December 14, 2004
Location: Isle Of Man
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 4:15 PM / IP Logged  

I'm with KP all the way here,let's take this a stage further and end this silly thread because all of the last few entries are right in their own way

This gets my vote..... good God gentlemen.

That dead horse that people talk about beating....

Let him rest in peace. There is no more education possible in this thread..... (IMHO)

Just attitude and opinion.

Go ahead guys Im ready................. flame me!  I can take it!

KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,526
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 4:20 PM / IP Logged  

darth tater wrote:
Yes of course I am talking about sealed heat shrink connectors as those should be the only kind ever used. While you may not have seen an isntall with it, that certainly doesn't discredit the ability of them to work better then a solder joint. I have never done an install without that type of butt connector or other terminal, and that would be in the field at my personal shop not at the dealer. Just because people are too cheap to use the proper type of connector doesn't suddenly make anther type of connection better. And you certainly can compare an original crimp (not the correct use of OEM by the way) to a field crimp as you have every bit of access to the same tools the PERSON assembling the factory wiring harness has. Infact I was just using one minutes ago.
As for VW Audi electrical problems.. They are difficult to understand to some, they are far from unreliable. I have worked for VW and I am a certified Audi tech so I have worked on probably more then a 1000 of them, electrical problems are probably the least common problem and if they do have one they are simple.
Twisting and soldering wires makes for one of the most rigid unstress relieved connections.
With a proper crimp you have the connection made inside the metal barrel. You then have a small amount of the metal barrel uncrimped that limits the movement of the wire. you then have 1/4-1/2 of heat shrink flexible tuning that is sealed with glue. so you end up with usually about a half inch of stress relief area. With a soldered connection this does not exist as it will bend and stress starting at the base of the solder joint. You may disagree with some of the other things I have said however this is not something I am stating as opinion now this is a matter of fact.
And no that would not be welding in anyway shape or form, it would still be soldering.. brazing if you want to stretch the definition I guess.

With all due respect, your claims are completely irrevelevent to this discussion.  Car alarm/remote start installers are NOT using high quality water proof connectors here..  This off topic debate is between soldering, barrel connectors, and T-Taps (the plastic ones without any sealant).  The barrel connectors are almost exclusively crimped with a $30 hand tool with no force settings.

I've honestly never used a water/weatherproof crimp in a car.  I wouldn't be against it, as long as there is something to isolate the metal crimping structure from the elements (like the glue you mention). 

As far as strain relief, once the solder joint is wrapped in tape the joint can not bend.  That is the point of wrapping the added wire with the host wire.  They become attached through the mechanical connection, through the solder, AND through the tape.  If you try to bend the added wire it will bend the host wire (and the connection joint) with it, thus providing strain relief.

You've got to be kidding me if you think the original equipment manufacturers are HAND building harnesses.  They are all machine built for speed and quality reasons.

How is 'OEM Crimp' not a correct use of the abbreviation 'OEM'?  It is, afterall, the original equipment manufacturer who is crimping this factory crimps, no?  Thus, making them OEM crimps. 

Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 5:47 PM / IP Logged  

What I forgot in my last post was I found that my Weller Cordless is hotter than my Weller gun and its nice to watch the solder flow into the joint also if it ain't shiny I go over it! Yes I have a £100 ($200) french "FACOM" ratchet crimping tool BUT I only ever do 2 types of crimps on an alarm/RS:- 1)Ring terminals for grounds and I scrape the metal bare and spray with a water retardent and heat shrink over the crimp. !/4/6.4mm Shielded receptacle for hood switch, taped along the length and again heat shrink at the crimp with water retarding spray, N.B. The back of the siren is also sprayed 'cause that's where water damage starts with DEI sirens. Taking it to giddy lengths in my own car I've used convoluted tubing everywhere and AMP sureseal connectors under the hood. NB Most manufacturers use these and molex with lithium grease under the hood.

Right to be controversial is STILL can't see where an electrical problem (and I've seen quite a few related to trannies) would destroy rather than failsafe a gearbox. Bet previous owner put some nasty muck in gearbox to quieten it down prior to sale.

Does this help me towards another star, I'm cheering for Gary and KP and Sarcomax.

mabuffalo 
Copper - Posts: 63
Copper spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: June 23, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 6:58 PM / IP Logged  
peterubers wrote:

Get the BBB involved asap -- i've worked with the BBB once in the past to resolve an issue with a major automaker and they helped me obtain a fair, equitable resolution.  I suggest you do the same, regardless if you hire private legal representation.  It's free, it's an online form, and it only takes 5 minutes to fill out.

Just make sure you have your facts in order, your receipts for all the work handy (including actual time of delivery, date of work done, manager or service/tech you spoke with and/or the guy who actually did the work) First and last names are best, but if you at least know the first name, that's a start. 

The BBB drops out once a lawsuit is filed (i.e., case closed, records purged!). This is true regardless of who wins the litigation. Also, the incident never appears in the city where it occured but rather at the location of the national corporation's home office. So, if you checked with the Buffalo or NYS BBB, Circuit City has never had a complaint filled against them; you would have to check with the BBB in Richmond, VA. And even that complaint disappeared after the judicial system became involved.

Conclusion: The BBB is pretty worthless for consumer protection. It serves simply as a front organization for businesses willing to pay their fees. I suppose I was very naive here, but I really thought they afforded some degree of consumer protection/awareness supported by businesses that wished to police themselves. Silly me. Some people that I have spoken with were already aware of the BBB's lack of credibility (e.g., BBB membership means little more than the business pays a fee to display the logo).

OK, one topic down and 44 more to go. I have apparently started my commentary that was promised earlier. We might make 1,000 post yet.

MABuffalo
Mad Scientists 
Silver - Posts: 380
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 9:02 PM / IP Logged  
mabuffalo wrote:

Finally, it's interesting that the tach wire ties into a monostable vibrator. I told the judge that I suspect that the misconnected wire would have to drive the PCM into an astable mode resulting in oscillation to cause the damage to my transmission. (Remember, the Ford transmission has a fail-safe mode that locks it into 2nd gear if their is an electronics problem.) This was of course above his head (and my M.A. from RPI including coursework in biomedical engineering less 'expertise' than a two-week mail-order certificate that the installer probably even lacked -- OK, that was low, but I am a little psssssd). More on the court case later . . .

Given what you've told us, I don't see how the judge would have been able to do anything other then what he did. Your opinion of what happened is based on what exactly? What relevance does your M.A. from RPI have? It looks to me like you didn't prove your case. Even if the miswiring was the actual reason for the failure, you still have to prove it.

The transmission will only lock into second gear, 'limp home' mode, under certain conditions. The damage to the gearset isn't what I would expect from a controls problem. Your statement that the remote start system worked seems to indicate that the system was functional. Your best proof would be to re-install the alarm system as was installed by Circuit City and see if the problem repeats.. if it does, you would have just about an ironclad case against them.

If  you are considering an appeal, I would suggest attempting either that or finding someone to use as an expert witness.

Jim 

KarTuneMan 
Platinum - Posts: 7,056
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: December 14, 2004
Location: Isle Of Man
Posted: October 21, 2007 at 11:26 PM / IP Logged  

Ya know what I think? Not that it matters one sticking ****g bit. You bought a used vehicle with a bad transmission, or at the very least, one that was on it's last mile.

Bad timing, and an awfull coincidence. All that pretty pink tranny fluid on a vehicle with how many miles. The fluid alone told ME that the tranny was recently serviced.

Either to solve,  investigate, or cover up a problem. Problem NOT solved, nor found... and you purchase the rig, AND it's unresolved problem. Neither you or the NASA rocket scientist that was made reference to earlier, can prove your case.  Like I said.... bad timing. Sorry.  Good day. I'm done, peace out. And may the good Lord forgive me!

usabuilt 
Copper - Posts: 161
Copper spacespace
Joined: September 11, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 22, 2007 at 9:11 AM / IP Logged  
I have a few questions.
1) Is the remote starter still installed?
2) Is the transmission working fine now?
3) was the only wiring changed from the tach signal?
4) Is it possible that YOU put the van in 2nd gear instead of Drive when you left the shop?
5) Was a faulty soldering connection. t-tap connection or any other connection discovered in the installation?
6) Did you check the level of the transmission fluid at every gas fill up, or at least monthly.
7) How many miles are on the transmission and has the fluid ever been changed.
8) did you watch the installer remove the transmission and see what it looked like when he removed it? or did he call you with the results?
init 
Copper - Posts: 93
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 13, 2007
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: October 23, 2007 at 11:32 AM / IP Logged  

usabuilt wrote:
6) Did you check the level of the transmission fluid at every gas fill up, or at least monthly.

I've heard of checking the fluid at each oil change but I don't know anyone who checks trans. fluid or anything like that after a fill-up.

I'm not a professional installer. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express.
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