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2 amps to 1 sub?


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DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:01 PM / IP Logged  

kolk1 wrote:
Yes, its a DVC. But it would damage the sub if one coil was getting slightly more or less power than the other voice coil. .

This is a false statement.  The only damage would be if the amplifier is producing more power than the voice coil (or the mechanical suspension) can handle.

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hardwarz 
Member - Posts: 26
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Joined: October 04, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 12:48 PM / IP Logged  
punkguyta wrote:
hardwarz wrote:

kolk1 wrote:
My amps are rated at 1000 RMS at 1 ohm.

So... what's your amp rated at 4 Ohms?  I'm going to guess that your VC do not equal 1 ohm each, so putting 1 amp into 1 VC isn't going to give you the power you're looking for.

Hardwarz

Actually if the amp is stable at 1 Ohm then 1000 watts to a 2000 watt subwoofer will probably be plenty loud unless you're trying to do some spl battleing.

I know I've been out of this for a while, but it use to be that bridging and  dropping the load to the amp increased the power of the amp.  If that's true and you give the amp 4 ohms bridged, it won't produce the 1000W  that it's suppose to.  correct?

ibasspro 
Copper - Posts: 95
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Joined: October 10, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 1:29 PM / IP Logged  

DYon, you are wrong, in stating that if both coils receive different power, that no damage will occor. You are correct in the fact that it all must be in phase. Here is a lengthy, & correct way to Gain Match (Voltage match is the wrong term) two amplifiers.

You will need a sub that can handle the amp wide open. A Test CD with multiple frequencies, & a DMM on the AC voltage setting.

1. Hook up 1 amp, gain at full, x-oxer at full, bass boost at full. Hook the sub up so it reads closest to the ohm load that you will be using in the end. Play test tones starting at 25Hz  up to 120Hz(assuming there is no sub sonic filter on the amp), rolling on the volumne knob on the deck, untill the amp is at full saturation (where the volt meter no longer increases in #'s). Do this to find the frequency of max output from the amp. Now do the same with amp #2. Make shure your charging system can keep the voltage to the amp constant, to ensure accurate results.

2. Hook up the WEAKER of the 2 amps, & set the gain, X-over point, & bass boost as you normally would. Hook up the STRONGER of the 2 amps (this time 1 amp to each voice coil), & at low volumne, set the output at all the frequencies the same (or within .3 of a volt). Start with the settings on the stronger amp all the way down, set gain approx, tune in bass boost frex. & level, & x-over point...then fine tune it in. This will ensure that, gain, bass boost frequency, & x-over point are all set the same (no matter what the knobs on the amps say).

3. Turn the volumne up, to max output of the weaker amp, & check the output of the stonger amp, to make shure it is still within .3 of a volt.

I learned this from a post Jeff Sanford did on the USACi forums a long time ago....in 04 I think, & have used it multiple times, & it works perfectly......it does seem that any more than a .3 variance in the out put, gives that burning VC smell....so make shure the DMM you use is accurate.

Just a side note, the ZAPCO DC amps WILL NOT work well this way, as the adjustment increments are too large, & (with the 1100.1) max output voltages can't be matced, even with adjsting the rail voltage, not just the gain structure) 

IF power is different to each voice coil, one with more power will try to move farter than the other, & WILL destroy the sub, as it will "push" the other VC, & generate exessive heat. You can easily prove this by hooking up matching subs, in the same sealed box, hook a 1000W amp to one sub, & a 500W amp to the other, & count how many seconds it takes for you to smell VC burning. do the same with 2-1000W amps, & count the time. The sub getting the LESSER power will get destoryed first, because it is being FORCED to move. Same goes for our DVC with different power to each VC, the one with lesser power with be forced to move.

used to be loud, used to be fast...now I am married LOL
haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
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Posted: November 20, 2007 at 1:45 PM / IP Logged  
basspro, I know you didn't just tell a mod that he was wrong, PARTICULARLY when you are the one who is wrong...
Read this... ALL OF IT!!! When you've read it ALL, (and I will test you...) THEN come back and apologize.
You cannot cause any damage to a subwoofer by connecting one voice coil OR connecting two amplifiers to it. Run one completely out of phase, for all the woofer is concerned, it WLL NOT DAMAGE the woofer, as long as power and mechanical limits are observed. Period, and end of story.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 2:32 PM / IP Logged  
ibasspro wrote:

DYon, you are wrong, in stating that if both coils receive different power, that no damage will occor.

IF power is different to each voice coil, one with more power will try to move farter than the other, & WILL destroy the sub, as it will "push" the other VC, & generate exessive heat. You can easily prove this by hooking up matching subs, in the same sealed box, hook a 1000W amp to one sub, & a 500W amp to the other, & count how many seconds it takes for you to smell VC burning. do the same with 2-1000W amps, & count the time. The sub getting the LESSER power will get destoryed first, because it is being FORCED to move. Same goes for our DVC with different power to each VC, the one with lesser power with be forced to move.

That is utter BS.

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ibasspro 
Copper - Posts: 95
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Joined: October 10, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 3:02 PM / IP Logged  

haemphyst wrote:
basspro, I know you didn't just tell a mod that he was wrong, PARTICULARLY when you are the one who is wrong...
Read this... ALL OF IT!!! When you've read it ALL, (and I will test you...) THEN come back and apologize.
You cannot cause any damage to a subwoofer by connecting one voice coil OR connecting two amplifiers to it. Run one completely out of phase, for all the woofer is concerned, it WLL NOT DAMAGE the woofer, as long as power and mechanical limits are observed. Period, and end of story.

I skimmed all 14 pages (sorry, but most of it was just banterings, or simple questions that have been asked & answered many time), & did not see one post about running 2 different amps to 1 speaker...although page 11 had some very good info (in wich I read in full). I AM correct on how to match 2 amps to one sub, in wich that thread has no mention of what so ever. So go ahead, test away, or we can stop this wizing match, & ensure the proper way of matching 2 amps to one sub is posted. It is not how much you or I know, it is getting that knowledge to those that need it.

Perhaps it would be better for you to just call me, as somehow I must be reading things incorrectly. My Phone # is (408) 406-8773 Tony Sorritelli, Just because he is a moderator, does not mean he is infallible....& I was not trying to be a jerk about it, & if it came off that way I apologise.

(I intend no animosity what so ever...so please do not read it that way)

used to be loud, used to be fast...now I am married LOL
ibasspro 
Copper - Posts: 95
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 10, 2007
Location: California, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 3:07 PM / IP Logged  

IF you beleive it is BS, please do the test I posted. You will find out that it is true & correct. Perhaps not in theory, but in reality. I can save you the time, as I have done it, & the one with LESS power got destroyed. I did not type that because it is somehting I am guessing. I have done it, that is what happened, period.

Flame away if y'all want, I gotta get back to work. I stand by the post, as it is a very solid way to match 2 amps to one DVC sub.

used to be loud, used to be fast...now I am married LOL
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 3:52 PM / IP Logged  
OK. You skimmed it. Did you read the article from Dan Wiggins that I linked to? (oh wait, the website is down... I'll try to find a copy of it to upload... I'm pretty sure I have a copy on my server still...)
Is thet your cell phone? PM me with your answer... I'll call you tonight...
Anyway, here's a guy that niether of us know, (I can say that with a fair amount of certainty) he read the linked paper from Dan, and he arrived at this conclusion... (SUPER duper slow website, it'll load tho.) Look for the guy named JRace.
Another link referencing the same paper...
Here's my search for the paper referenced in the 14 page thread... Seems they are all links, but you will see that everybody that reads the paper, THEN understands that it is perfectly safe to wire two amplifiers to, or run one voicecoil of, a DVC sub, no matter WHAT the configuration.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 4:20 PM / IP Logged  
ibasspro wrote:

IF you beleive it is BS, please do the test I posted. You will find out that it is true & correct. Perhaps not in theory, but in reality. I can save you the time, as I have done it, & the one with LESS power got destroyed. I did not type that because it is somehting I am guessing. I have done it, that is what happened, period.

Flame away if y'all want, I gotta get back to work. I stand by the post, as it is a very solid way to match 2 amps to one DVC sub.

I've done it many times with no issue UNLESS (as I said in the initial post) the voice coil is overpowered.  But there is no (repeat NONE) problem using different power levels from different amps on a DVC speaker (indeed, even completely different signals can be used with no damage what so ever.)

I agree, there is nothing wrong with your instructions on how to match the output levels of two amps.  That is not the issue.  The issue is that you do NOT have to do that if your intention is simply to avoid speaker damage.  The only thing that will damage a loudspeaker voice coil is over power.  Period.

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haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: November 20, 2007 at 7:29 PM / IP Logged  
Here's the link... I uploaded it in a completely unchanged format, this is EXACTLY the way it was presented on the Adire website.
Now, if you know Dan Wiggins or even of the name, you'll know that he is one of the foremost loudspeaker designers in the world. (I LOVE his drivers, I am running a pair of the Extremis in my door right now... But I digress) Adire was an OEM for many manufacturers, and many OTHERS use the patent of the XBL^2 technology in their drivers.
You'd do well to read it completely, to digest it thoroughly. I think you'll understand. 2 amps to 1 sub? - Page 2 -- posted image.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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