sound processor, eq, line driver?

1: It is going to depend COMPLETELY on what you want to do. With the exception of (possibly) upping the RCA voltage, all of those devices perform COMPLETELY different functions. 2: The Sony amp could be replaced with a better quality amplifier for the money you could spend on a signal processor. This would help more than any of the others. 3: Why does everybody think you have to have a higher output voltage? If your head's output falls within the range of the amplifier's acceptable input, you WILL get full output from the amplifier, and too high a voltage will drive the amp to clipping far sooner, DECREASING your overall sound quality, and risking damage to your drivers.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Nothing wrong with keeping things simple. Processors can be usuful or cause more problems. Speaker placement, component selection and installation counts for alot.

trancelovin65 wrote: well my HU will be at volume 40 and i know my sub can be heard louder but it seems its not get a good signal, i might have to get a new HU maybe.

Then your gain is mis-matched. 2V RMS SHOULD be enough to drive that amplifier to full output, easily. If your amp is already driven to full output, (easily tested with a true RMS volt meter) you are likely expecting more out of the sub/amp combo than it is really capable of, and a new deck/processor/EQ/line driver will not fix the issue. If the woofer is capable of more output, then you might either need a proper enclosure for it (this si what I expect is the issue...), or an amplifier with more power on tap.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote: 3: Why does everybody think you have to have a higher output voltage? If your head's output falls within the range of the amplifier's acceptable input, you WILL get full output from the amplifier, and too high a voltage will drive the amp to clipping far sooner, DECREASING your overall sound quality, and risking damage to your drivers.

I'm not saying that higher voltage is needed, but IMO it is better having a 4V (or more) pre out on the HU than 2V. I have used a couple Eclipse decks with 8v pre outs and switch to an alpine w200 with a 2v pre out and noticed a significan different, both audibly and on the meter (term lab). This can be adjust by increasing the gains (if going from 8V to 2V), however, your amplifier then runs hotter and will not be as efficient. Efficiency is the key. The cooler your equipment runs, the more efficient it will be, and the better performance you will get out of it.

I highly recommend getting a deck with at least 4V pre outs to anyone and if you have a deck with 2V pre outs, such as mine, a processor is a must (especially for the w200 and the w205, otherwise the deck is crap without it).

As for the issue, it is a power issue. If gains are set high (I would never go past 3/4), then the sub needs more power, provided it can handle it.

donpisto wrote: I'm not saying that higher voltage is needed, but IMO it is better having a 4V (or more) pre out on the HU than 2V. I have used a couple Eclipse decks with 8v pre outs and switch to an alpine w200 with a 2v pre out and noticed a significan different, both audibly and on the meter (term lab). This can be adjust by increasing the gains (if going from 8V to 2V), however, your amplifier then runs hotter and will not be as efficient. Efficiency is the key. The cooler your equipment runs, the more efficient it will be, and the better performance you will get out of it.

1: I JUST, last weekend, as a matter of fact, went from an 8V Eclipse deck, (the 5445) to an Alpine W205, and while the 2V output DID require some amp gain tweaking, I was able to get JUST as much output from the 2V as I was from the 8V deck. Other than the overall system output, there was no difference. I do not believe, that if your system is set CORRECTLY, you will notice any difference at all, nor will the TermLab. That's just me. As far as the adjusting of the amplifier gains, if the POWER OUTPUT is the same, then the amplifier will run NO DIFFERENT, thermally speaking. The efficiency of the amplifier is what produces the heat, the heat is a by-product of energy transfer (from 12V input to whatever the output voltage is), and if an amp "is running hotter", it ISN'T because you turned the gain up, it's because you are asking it to do more.

donpisto wrote: I highly recommend getting a deck with at least 4V pre outs to anyone and if you have a deck with 2V pre outs, such as mine, a processor is a must (especially for the w200 and the w205, otherwise the deck is crap without it).

No, it isn't necessary, and no, the deck ISN'T crap without it... The crap comes when the installer/user doesn't know how to adjust signal levels properly. As I said above, if your amplifier's acceptable input range includes the RMS output voltage available from the deck, you WILL get full power from the amplifier, even without any kind of "processing", "line driving", or "equalization", no matter what your definition of those are.

donpisto wrote: As for the issue, it is a power issue. If gains are set high (I would never go past 3/4), then the sub needs more power, provided it can handle it.

Thanks, Mr. Obvious... You're a lifesaver. Your generalizations are trouble, man! You can't GUARANTEE that, I still maintain enclosure is more important, and more likely the case... He's got 1200 watts for a single driver, I'd say to look into a different box before spending more money on an amplifier that may give MARGINALLY (ONLY 3dB if he goes to 2400 watts - a barely audible difference!) more output or not.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

So uhhh Dave, how's it going? I see the "Bad Advice Monster" has found it's way out of the cave again. Agree 100% with everything you posted. To sum it up in layman's terms, higher preamp voltage is a benefit to S/N ratio, because you can turn down your amps gains, reduce noise and retain dynamic range.There is no such thing as free installation!

haemphyst wrote: if an amp "is running hotter", it ISN'T because you turned the gain up, it's because you are asking it to do more.

Turning up the gain IS asking for the amp to do more.

haemphyst wrote: No, it isn't necessary, and no, the deck ISN'T crap without it... The crap comes when the installer/user doesn't know how to adjust signal levels properly. As I said above, if your amplifier's acceptable input range includes the RMS output voltage available from the deck, you WILL get full power from the amplifier, even without any kind of "processing", "line driving", or "equalization", no matter what your definition of those are.

Oh really? So tell me, I guess I should be able to fine tune my system by adjusting the bass and treble from -7 to +7? That is enough? I think not. It has no EQ that is usefull without the H701 processor. Do you see any SQ guys running the W200 or W205 without the processor? Can you do time alignment and set your soundstage without the processor? The deck, is really useless without the processor if you want the audio to sound right. I'm currently using it without the processor and it sounds okay.... and please don't tell me adjust the bass and treble is because I am not setting it right, you need more than that. You need to set crossover points and adjust the slope on them as well.

haemphyst wrote: Your generalizations are trouble, man! You can't GUARANTEE that, I still maintain enclosure is more important, and more likely the case... He's got 1200 watts for a single driver, I'd say to look into a different box before spending more money on an amplifier that may give MARGINALLY (ONLY 3dB if he goes to 2400 watts - a barely audible difference!) more output or not.

A better enclosure is a must, I agree. But he has a 15" RE HC. That sub will take more than 1.2k. Only 3 dB huh? You think that's not alot? Wow, you got some learning to do. 3 dB is more than "a barely audible difference". I have ran several setups, ran different amps on the same subs, ran different subs on same amps, whatever combination you can think of. I can easily notice the difference of even even 0.5 dB. How do I know this? I did a 141.2 dB on the TL on a DD 9515 on a treo ssx 1500.1 then went to a kicker zx 2500.1 and did a 140.8. With music you can easily tell the difference. Also, 3 dB is theoretically double the loudness. It is a SIGNIFICANT difference. I had 3 10's doing a nice 132 on music, i also had a single 10 doing about 133-134 on music (i own a TL so i can verify these). I first listen to the system and then meter it, before I even meter I could tell. I even have had people in my vehicle notice the difference. So please, unless you can back up your thoughts with facts, then don't misinform people. Also, you will never get full power from the amplifier, why? Because there is something called efficiency, which depends highly on the components of the amp. And if you can't keep up voltage either, then you for sure will not get the power the amp is rated for. Again, do a little research and get some experience before you blab your mouth. Having a higher post count doesn't mean you know more ;)