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getz999 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: June 25, 2008
Location: Maryland, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:11 PM / IP Logged  
Me and the boys on my car forum are having a little debate.
I recently threw in a center channel speaker in my vehicle. A little 4 inch Infinity Reference.
The factory speaker locations are being powered by an Infinity 4 channel amp.
In order to power the center speaker, I bridged it over my front two channels coming off of the radio.Taking the negative from the front left, and the positive from the front right.
They are saying that the impedeance is now 2ohms, and will cause my head unit to fry. I know this is not true, as the radio is still being presented with a 4 ohm load. However, I am fully aware that the head unit is now working twice as hard to power my center speaker. I am also fully aware that this is not necessarily a TRUE center channel,I am holding off on purchasing a center channel amplifier for now.
I guess my real point of this topic is, does anyone see anything inherently wrong with the way I setup the speaker. Once again, I realize the radio is working a little harder, but I do not see this causing my radio to go up in smoke, or anything of the like.
Thoughts?
I drive a Saturn...commence insults
jar754 
Copper - Posts: 142
Copper spacespace
Joined: December 16, 2003
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:19 PM / IP Logged  
what kind of radio?
sedate 
Silver - Posts: 1,173
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 03, 2004
Location: Colorado, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:21 PM / IP Logged  

getz wrote:
I bridged it over my front two channels coming off of the radio.Taking the negative from the front left, and the positive from the front right.
They are saying that the impedeance is now 2ohms, and will cause my head unit to fry. I know this is not true, as the radio is still being presented with a 4 ohm load.

Um.  You probably won't have ur head unit for long. 

They correct - you are presenting your head unit - designed to run 4-ohm ONLY - with a 2-ohm per channel load.  This will, in all likelyhood, damage/destroy ur head unit at some point in the near future.

getz wrote:
does anyone see anything inherently wrong with the way I setup the speaker. Once again, I realize the radio is working a little harder, but I do not see this causing my radio to go up in smoke

Well you won't see it go up in smoke, as u'll be shorting an integrated circuit instead of a coil - it'll prolly just shutoff - permanently - at some point in the very near future.

You should disconnect that speaker dude.

getz wrote:
I drive a Saturn...commence insults

Insults?  At $4.50/gallon?  Looks like you CAN make good choices. . . .

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
jmelton86 
Gold - Posts: 1,228
Gold spacespace
Joined: February 07, 2007
Location: South Carolina, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:29 PM / IP Logged  

With proper installation of the front speakers, this ghetto 'center channel' will not be needed.

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getz999 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: June 25, 2008
Location: Maryland, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:32 PM / IP Logged  
I dont see how I am presenting the radio with a 2ohm load
Its a Pioneer 7800, probably 25ish RMS per channel
I drive a Saturn...commence insults
advanced_audio 
Copper - Posts: 170
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 07, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:15 PM / IP Logged  
It's simple ohms law. Search for ohms law and you will get why your radio will be very quiet soon.
i am an idiot 
Platinum - Posts: 13,693
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: September 21, 2006
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:25 PM / IP Logged  

Since you are powering your other speakers with an amplifier, if the only speaker connected to your head unit is the center channel speaker, your radio will be fine.  On your radio each channel acts as a bridged amplifier connection.  On a 2 channel bridgeable amplifier, there are 4 terminals.  The 2 terminals that are not used to bridge the amp.  Usually the left negative and the right positive are connected together.  They are essentially the ground for that channel.  The left positive and the right negative wires have audio signal on them.  The right channel is electronically inverted (180 degrees out of phase with the left channel).  So when you bridge an amp there is now voltage on both the positive and the negative wire.  Bridging a 2 channel amp into a 4 ohm load is the same as having each channel running into a 2 ohm load.  2 ohm left plus 2 ohm right = 4 ohms across the amp.  Same as a 4 ohm mono load. 

Your radio just as the bridged amp has voltage on both the positive and negative wires.  Essentially your radio has 4 bridged amplifiers built into it.  So if you use one wire from front left and the opposite wire from the front right, your radio output chip will be fine as long as you do not have any other speakers connected to the front channels.      But as JMelton stated above it will probably be ghetto.    For a center channel speaker to work properly, special decoding in needed to tell the speaker what to play.  Stereo means 2 separate channels, one left and one right.  That is where you get stereo separation.  With the center speaker basically being a mix of the left and right channels, I really think it will do major harm to your sound quality. 

getz999 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: June 25, 2008
Location: Maryland, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:50 PM / IP Logged  
i am an idiot wrote:

Since you are powering your other speakers with an amplifier, if the only speaker connected to your head unit is the center channel speaker, your radio will be fine.  On your radio each channel acts as a bridged amplifier connection.  On a 2 channel bridgeable amplifier, there are 4 terminals.  The 2 terminals that are not used to bridge the amp.  Usually the left negative and the right positive are connected together.  They are essentially the ground for that channel.  The left positive and the right negative wires have audio signal on them.  The right channel is electronically inverted (180 degrees out of phase with the left channel).  So when you bridge an amp there is now voltage on both the positive and the negative wire.  Bridging a 2 channel amp into a 4 ohm load is the same as having each channel running into a 2 ohm load.  2 ohm left plus 2 ohm right = 4 ohms across the amp.  Same as a 4 ohm mono load. 

Your radio just as the bridged amp has voltage on both the positive and negative wires.  Essentially your radio has 4 bridged amplifiers built into it.  So if you use one wire from front left and the opposite wire from the front right, your radio output chip will be fine as long as you do not have any other speakers connected to the front channels.      But as JMelton stated above it will probably be ghetto.    For a center channel speaker to work properly, special decoding in needed to tell the speaker what to play.  Stereo means 2 separate channels, one left and one right.  That is where you get stereo separation.  With the center speaker basically being a mix of the left and right channels, I really think it will do major harm to your sound quality. 

Thank you, this is the kind of response I was lookin for. I have been basic MECP certified for the past couple of years, and am currently working on my Advanced Certification. I more than understand Ohms Law.
I drive a Saturn...commence insults
getz999 
Member - Posts: 10
Member spacespace
Joined: June 25, 2008
Location: Maryland, United States
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 8:55 PM / IP Logged  
Also, as I said, I am currently in the process of looking at center channel amps/decoders. I realize sound quality is not being maximized with the current setup, it was more or less an experiment.
And it is correct that a properly setup up front, will almost eliminate the need for a center channel, but I am always into the game of trying stuff I have never tried before.
As a proffessional, I am constantly learnign and trying to better myself in terms of installation. This market is constantly evolving and changing every year, which means my skills will have to change and improve at a constant rate.
I drive a Saturn...commence insults
audiocableguy 
Copper - Posts: 630
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 27, 2003
Location: Idaho, United States
Posted: June 27, 2008 at 5:56 PM / IP Logged  
I'm with jmelton and "I am" with this one. More speakers aren't always the answer and the less processing the better.
"I more than understand Ohms Law". Never heard ANYONE say this.
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