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dei ground when armed starter kill


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wungun 
Copper - Posts: 71
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Joined: November 27, 2004
Posted: March 01, 2009 at 12:07 PM / IP Logged  

Okay, question: Why did DEI program their alarms to send power to a starter kill relay when the system is armed? Wouldn't this cause significant battery drain after some time with a relay constantly being active?

Wouldn't it of been better to use a N-O relay instead, and have the alarm module apply power to the relay when the system was disarmed instead, closing the starter circuit, and allowing the car to start?

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: March 01, 2009 at 12:15 PM / IP Logged  

You are completely wrong,  that relay will only draw power  when the alarm is ON and a hotwire attempt is made,  if you don't understand that you should read up on relays.  Armed output goes to 85 on the coil, ign goes to 86 on the coil, thus coil will only be energised and  drawing power if BOTH the alarm  AND the ignition were on at the same time.

KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: March 01, 2009 at 12:28 PM / IP Logged  

DEI was "smart" about it - they designed it to be "fail safe".  The last thing a large alarm company wants is to be blamed for leaving customers stranded if the alarm fails.

In your scenario, if the main alarm fuse blew, or the alarm failed, the car wouldn't be operable.  Using the NC contact means that you can actually remove the alarm brain and the car will still start (as long as you don't cut the starter kill wires).

In the end, if you think about it, a starter kill, no matter how you do it, isn't really that secure.  If someone is able to access the wires to hot wire the car bypassing a simply relay isn't really a challange!

Kevin Pierson
wungun 
Copper - Posts: 71
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Joined: November 27, 2004
Posted: March 01, 2009 at 12:50 PM / IP Logged  
howie ll wrote:

You are completely wrong,  that relay will only draw power  when the alarm is ON and a hotwire attempt is made,  if you don't understand that you should read up on relays.  Armed output goes to 85 on the coil, ign goes to 86 on the coil, thus coil will only be energised and  drawing power if BOTH the alarm  AND the ignition were on at the same time.

Ahhh...I see what you mean. The coil will only be active if the alarm is armed and it sees current from the IGN switch? Well, that's pretty clever then! I was looking at the DEI relay, and there is only 3 wires, so this makes sense...

However, if someone is trying to steal your car, it makes it a little easy for them to locate the starter kill relay...they just need to listen to the clicks whenever they turn the IGN :)

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
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Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: March 01, 2009 at 1:49 PM / IP Logged  
You are absolutely right,  once inside the vehicle I can route past any aftermarket immobiliser in about 5 mins, just follow the cables or go straight to the ignition or fuel pump wiring. That's why over here the Cat l alarms have buried the immobiliser relays inside the metallic boxes.
wungun 
Copper - Posts: 71
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 27, 2004
Posted: March 16, 2009 at 7:13 AM / IP Logged  
So now that I know how it's connected, any old relay can work, huh?
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: March 17, 2009 at 7:50 AM / IP Logged  
No, use a Bosch type 5pin relay which has 20-30amps power handling.
karibdis 
Member - Posts: 7
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Joined: May 24, 2008
Posted: March 23, 2009 at 10:23 PM / IP Logged  
https://www.directedstore.com/manuals/8618.pdf
https://www.the12volt.com/relays/page2.asp

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