2003 Toyota Echo, Avital Remote Start 4105L, Ignition 2 Relay or Not

i have looked through the forums and found out where everthing goes but one thing that i still dont understand is if this unit needs a separate relay for ign2 or not. In this post the user needed one: https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=135529 does Avital 4105L have a built in relay so that i can hook up the pink/white(heavy gauge relay) from the avital directly to the cars black/red ignition #2 at the ignition switch? i also used bullydogs schematics but they call for a relay but i dont know if its needed for my unit http://diagrams.marktoonen.nl/DOWNLOADS/26302_ECHO_TOYOTA%20IGNITION%20ISOLATION%20CIRCUIT.pdf i used this post to find out where all the wires are going https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=138519 the last question is that the unit does not mention any "starter kill" wire. The purple (+) starter output(from the heavy gauge relay) of the avital is going into the black(+) start wire at the ignition switch harness. Does the unit automatically do the starter kill function through the black start wire? The vehicle is automatic, power locks, no alarm, no key transponder. i looked through the old posts but they vary depending on the model of the remote start kits. Thanks guys this forums are an amazing source of info!

The 4105L will work with your Echo without an additional external relay. You are correct in using the thick Pink/White IGN2 output wire for the Echo's Ignition2 wire. The 4105L comes with that wire programmed as IGN2 as the Factory Default. The 4105L is considered an "entry level" R/S system. As such, it does not have all the bells and whistles of the more expensive systems. There is no built in Starter Kill in the 4105L. You could add that feature if you wanted it. You would need an extra 30/40 Amp SPDT relay and use the ORANGE (-) 500mA GROUND WHEN LOCKED/ANTI-GRIND OUTPUT wire on the 4105L to control the relay. We can supply the relay wiring if you decide to go that route. Don't forget to set the Parking Light jumper to (-) if you connect to the Echo's Green/Black Parking Light wire at the Headlight connector. That jumper usually comes in the (+) position. Here is a 4105L harness listing ( in txt format ) that you can fill in with your proposed wire connections to the Echo if you would like the Forum members to review it and make recommendations. Viper 4105 Main 9 Pin 1 LIGHT GREEN/BLACK FACTORY ALARM DISARM 2 GREEN/WHITE FACTORY REARM 3 YELLOW (+) IGNITION OUT (TO ALARM) 4 WHITE/BLUE (-) ACTIVATION INPUT 5 ORANGE (-) GROUND WHEN LOCKED 6 BROWN (-) HORN OUTPUT 7 RED/WHITE (-) TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT 8 BLACK GROUND 9 WHITE (+/-) LIGHT FLASH R/S 5 Pin 1 BLACK/WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH INPUT 2 VIOLET/WHITE TACHOMETER INPUT WIRE 3 BROWN (+) BRAKE SWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE 4 GRAY (-) HOOD PINSWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE 5 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT 4-pin satellite harness diagram 1 BLUE STATUS OUTPUT 2 ORANGE (-) ACCESSORY OUTPUT 3 PURPLE (-) STARTER OUTPUT 4 PINK (-) IGNITION OUTPUT Heavy gauge 6 Pin 1 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12V INPUT 2 PINK/WHITE (+) PROGRAMMABLE OUTPUT FOR ACCESSORY OR IGNITION 3 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12 INPUT 4 ORANGE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT 5 PURPLE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO STARTER CIRCUIT 6 PINK (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO IGNITION CIRCUIT Door lock harness, 3-pin connector 1 BLUE (-) UNLOCK OUTPUT 2 EMPTY NOT USED 3 GREEN (-) LOCK OUTPUT Soldering is fun!

Thank you for the quick replay and clear up, i have always stayed away from modifying harness because of lack of information but this place amazing! I have charted down where i expect every where to get spliced together, only a bit of doubt with 1 or 2 wires if i am doing it correctly or not Viper 4105 Main 9 Pin 1 LIGHT GREEN/BLACK FACTORY ALARM DISARM   (NOT USED) 2 GREEN/WHITE FACTORY REARM (NOT USED) 3 YELLOW (+) IGNITION OUT (TO ALARM)       (NOT USED) 4 WHITE/BLUE (-) ACTIVATION INPUT          (NOT USED) 5 ORANGE (-) GROUND WHEN LOCKED            (NOT USED,NO STARTER KILL FUNCTION) 6 BROWN (-) HORN OUTPUT     (WHITE/RED(-) OEM HORN@STEERING COLUMN HARNESS) 7 RED/WHITE (-) TRUNK RELEASE OUTPUT (NOT USED) 8 BLACK GROUND (CHASSIS GROUND WIRE(-)) 9 WHITE (+/-) LIGHT FLASH (GREEN(+) PARKING LIGHTS@HEADLIGHT SWITCH,i am woundring if this will let the daytime running lights flash when the vehicle starts and then turn off or stay on? I just want a flash incase the vehicle does not start and the lights are left on) R/S 5 Pin 1 BLACK/WHITE (-) NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH INPUT (CHASSIS GROUND(-) TO IGNORE HAND BREAK SINCE AUTOMATIC) 2 VIOLET/WHITE TACHOMETER INPUT WIRE   (BLACK (AC) @ DIAGNOSTIC PLUG) 3 BROWN (+) BRAKE SWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE (GREEN/WHITE(+) @ BREAK PEDAL SWITCH, this of for taking over from remote start to running with the key in i assume) 4 GRAY (-) HOOD PINSWITCH SHUTDOWN WIRE (NOT USED, i will add it in later if everything works) 5 BLUE/WHITE (-) 200mA 2ND STATUS/REAR DEFOGGER OUTPUT (GREEN\WHITE(?) @ BEHIND DEFROSTER SWITCH, since its the winter vehicle it would be nice to have this option, only question is how long will the defogger stay on and can i turn in off when i get into the vehicle) 4-pin satellite harness diagram (i dont exactly know what this even does) 1 BLUE STATUS OUTPUT (NOT USED) 2 ORANGE (-) ACCESSORY OUTPUT (NOT USED) 3 PURPLE (-) STARTER OUTPUT (NOT USED) 4 PINK (-) IGNITION OUTPUT (NOT USED) Heavy gauge 6 Pin 1 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12V INPUT (WHITE/RED(+) OR WHITE/BLUE(+) @ IGNITION SWTICH HARNESS) 2 PINK/WHITE (+) PROGRAMMABLE OUTPUT FOR ACCESSORY OR IGNITION(mine says (+)second ignition/accessory circuit output) (BLACK/RED(+) @ IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS its labeled as ignition #2 on the echo) 3 RED (+) (30A) HIGH CURRENT 12 INPUT (WHITE/RED(+) OR WHITE/BLUE(+) @ IGNITION SWTICH HARNESS) 4 ORANGE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT (WHITE/RED(+) OR WHITE/BLUE(+) @ IGNITION SWTICH HARNESS) 5 PURPLE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO STARTER CIRCUIT (BLACK(+) @ IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS, the echo labels this function simply as "start" am it correctly hooking this up?) 6 PINK (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO IGNITION CIRCUIT (BLACK/YELLOW(+) @ IGNITION SWITCH HARNESS, echo labels this as ignition#1) Door lock harness, 3-pin connector 1 Light BLUE (-) UNLOCK OUTPUT (GREEN\BLACK(-) @ PASSENGER KICK PANEL) 2 EMPTY NOT USED 3 GREEN (-) LOCK OUTPUT (BROWN\YELLOW(-) @ PASSENGER KICK PANEL) I tired to put my labels on the far right of the coulomb but couldn't so i ended up making them bold. I ended up with 7 wires and then the 6 wires from the heavy gauge relay. It looks like to me that every wire from the Avital 4105L other than the chassis ground is getting T spliced into the echo, even it looks like all the wires coming from the heavy gauge relay is getting T spliced into the echo thank you! u/kreg357

Looks good! Only one update. 4 ORANGE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT (WHITE/RED(+) OR WHITE/BLUE(+) @ IGNITION SWTICH HARNESS) should be : 4 ORANGE (+) (30 AMP) OUTPUT TO ACCESSORY CIRCUIT White/Blue(+) @ IGNITION SWTICH HARNESS) You will have to test the White/Blue wiles in the main ignition switch harness. Toyota loves to have a couple the same color with different functions. One will be +12V constant and the other will test as an ACC wire. As for the 4105's two +_12V fused power input wires, I would split them between the Echo's two +12V constant wires you have listed, assuming they are both 12 gauge or better, Can't help with the Rear Defrost wire but your info could be correct. Here you will have to test to verify that is a (-) signal and determine if it is just a pulse or a latched output. Then you can program the 4105 accordingly. If its latched, the rear defrost will turn off as soon and the R/S key take-over occurs. The locks wires can also be found in the Drivers Kick Panel in a 14 Pin plug. You might want to test the Unlock wire to see if it gives you progressive unlock or if it unlocks all doors with one pulse. The 4105 can be programmed for a double unlock pulse output. Soldering is fun!

Awesome! I noticed i accidentally made the mistake on the 4 orange accessory output wire it is going into the white\blue wire on the ignition switch circuit like you said. I will edit the original post so that if in the future some one is looking they can have all the wires routed correctly. I will leave the defroster off and hook up everything then monitor what the unit does when its active. I am so glad that this unit does not need the relay because when i really did not expect to be splicing in so many wires, i guess i have become too used to things being plug and play and half expected the unit to come with inline adapters for different makes.

The T-Harness is a fairly recent addition to the R/S industry. As such it is mostly available for the newer vehicles with low current ignition systems and CAN Bus function control. If you can solder, then you will have no problems. I wouldn't recommend using T-Taps. Bulldog Security has a pretty video that shows how to make a splice without soldering. The splice info starts around the 5:00 minute mark :               http://www.bulldogsecurity.com/bdnew/remoteStartervideo500.html Always use a quality electric tape like Scotch Super 33+ to insulate your connections. Soldering is fun!

i opened it up today and wanted to see if i can get a component location pictorial before i start snipping, there seems to be a remote lock/unlock module already installed. It looks very professional and glued deep inside the body. It might be from factory as an added option so maybe that's why it looks a bit weird. i am looking for something like this http://www.fixya.com/fullimage.html?src=http://i.fixya.net/uploads/images/9_28_2011_3_03_36_pm.gif but for the steering column harness. For tomorrow i will use https://www.the12volt.com/installbay/forum_posts.asp?tid=129997     which is a 2009-2011 and that should be close enough to my 2003

Well I am into it now, the white/blue constant is a thick guage but the white/red 12v constant is thinner. My r/s unit has 2 thicker 12v constant inputs. Would it be wise to hook up both inputs to the echos one white/blue thick guage constant 12v?

You could. The 4105 has no alarm duties or siren. I would however use the (-) Parking Light wire to conserve a bit. There should be a very thick wire at the BCM that can handle over 100 amps but maki soldered connections takes experience.Soldering is fun!

I cant thank you enough, I finally finished the remote starter part of the vehicle and everything works! Now I have to find out the 2 wires for the lock/unlock that's apparently on the passenger kickpanel