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box ? for the experts


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JosefSchmidt 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 2:16 AM / IP Logged  
I'm having trouble with a box I built - to keep from having to type it again heres an e-mail I wrote the manufacturer for advice:
dB Drive technical service -
I built an enclosure for my db Drive PL12D2 (12" 1500RMS, dual 2 ohm voice coils) subwoofer last weekend, and I adhered absolutely to the specs stated in your website. According to the tech specs, the ideal ported enclosure for the subwoofer is 2 cu ft, tuned at 35 Hz, with a 4" diameter port 13.12" long.
I built the box, 28.5 inches wide, 11.5 inches tall, and 16.5 inches deep exterior dimensions, with 3/4" MDF. The sub is mounted facing upward toward the top of the trunk, under the rear deck of my BMW 635CSi. The port is facing the rear of the vehicle, and instead of a round 4" port I used a 10.05x1.25 rectangular port, which has the identical cross sectional area of a 4" round port. The port is on the bottom of the box and is also made of 3/4" MDF. I emailed you on November 27th inquiring the displacement of the woofer so I could account for it in box design, but you never replied so I found some generic information for a 12" woofer that claimed a good displacement assumption was .13 cu ft. The total box volume is 2.29 cu ft, but once the assumed volume of the sub and the volume of the port is included, it is almost exactly 2 cu ft. I have double and triple checked my calculations.
The voice coils are wired in parallel so that the total impedance is 1 ohm, and it is connected to my Hifonics BX1000D mono 1-ohm stable amplifier.
Now heres the problem. Pardon the childish language, but it sounds like poo. It sounds fine at low volumes but when driven to any volume much beyond a normal middle-aged womans listening volume it produces a sound that sounds alot like its being overdriven. The gain on the amp is below 1/3, the subsonic filter is set at 35Hz, but the sound is still terrible. I compared it to my brothers system, which consists of a $100 Jensen 300W amplifier and a $50 Pioneer 100W RMS 10" subwoofer purchased nearly 6 years ago, in a 1 cubic foot sealed box, and mine made his sound awesome. Its somewhat upsetting to me that after all the money spent and effort put into my system I'm being outdone with $150 and a sealed box.
I thought something could be defective with the woofer, so I tried it in a different box. Another rectangular box with a slot port, it sounded wonderful. I then tried the above mentioned Pioneer 10" in the box I built, and it sounded great, infinitely better than the db Drive in the same box. So I've got two boxes and two woofers - The pioneer sounds great in both boxes but the db Drive sounds good in one and like dookie in the other.
I thought then it could be the port. The inside end of the port was somewhat close to the rear wall of the box, and due to the large mounting depth of the sub perhaps the port was too close to the subwoofer. I redid some calculations and I found that the specs on the db Drive site do not match any formulas I could find anywhere. According to the most widely accepted calculations I found, a 4" x 13.12" port would tune the box at 32Hz, not 35Hz. I don't think this should have such a drastic affect, though, so its most likely inconsequential.
So, I got a piece of MDF, some screws, and some silicone and blocked the port, got some PVC pipe and installed a 3" diameter 5" long port, which should tune the enclosure at 35Hz. I installed it facing up in the corner of the box, ensuring I had 3 inches between the end of the port and the subwoofer, and the enclosure wall. Much to my dismay, the sound is identical.
So far, I've talked to some friends and came up with the following ideas for the problem:
the sub is facing up, should be facing back
the sub doesn't have enough room in front of it (the rear deck is approximately 2-3" above the surround)
port noise resulting from A) the short 1.25" height of the rectangular port
B) the small 3" port
None of these problems would be too terribly difficult to correct, its just that I don't want to keep rebuilding my box until I get it right- I would much rather rebuild it only once and get it sounding decent.
Do you have anything to suggest? I'm getting kindof desperate here, I don't understand why the sub works in another box but not this one, I can come up with literally no logical explanation for this.
I apologize for the long e-mail, but I felt you would do best at analyzing the problem with a detailed description of the issue.
thanks
So do any of y'all have any ideas on this? I, along with everyone I've talked to, is completely stumped.
Joe
bryceyaworsky 
Copper - Posts: 152
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 03, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 8:06 AM / IP Logged  

I'd definitely try facing the sub towards the back.  Over the years I've tried many different directions, and I found that a rear firing direction works best.  When the sub is facing upwards or towards the front you'll find that you get alot of woofer noise.  If I read your post right, you may want to try tipping your box over so your woofer is facing back and your port is aiming towards the floor (downfiring).  Just make sure you elevate the bottom of the box a few inches from the floor with legs, similar to what you'd see in a home sub enclosure.  You could also try facing the sub back and the port firing up towards the rear deck.

Of course (IMHO), the ideal box would have the vent or port facing the back just like the sub, so you might want to build a new box.  I've just given you a suggestion to try out and see if there's a diference, I don't think you'd want to keep it that way.

I'd probably say your better off building a new box, but this time you may want to get some box building software or learn some more about designing boxes.  Building a ported/vented box is much harder than a sealed box and you need to be rather precise about it also.  Good luck. 

JosefSchmidt 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 10:45 AM / IP Logged  

thats the solution I was leaning toward.  The boxs volume and port should be perfect, I just have a bad firing direction.

I am gonna have to build a new box, because laying the box on its side to face the sub backward makes it too tall to fit in the trunk.  I am probably gonna have to build a trapezoidal box because at the rear seat bulkhead the trunk is only about 12 inches tall, where the trunk lid begins it is 15.5 inches tall.  ...and of course the existing box would be 16.5 inches tall with the sub facing backward.

Joe
bryceyaworsky 
Copper - Posts: 152
Copper spacespace
Joined: August 03, 2003
Location: Canada
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 1:51 PM / IP Logged  
something else to consider.... most manufacturers list their optimum enclosure size including the sub's internal displacement.  This means that a recommended size of 2.0 ft3 should be 2.0 ft3, not 2.13 ft3.  It could make a noticeable difference with a ported box.  If it were a sealed box no biggie, but it's ported so you need to be careful.
JosefSchmidt 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 2:06 PM / IP Logged  

thats another thing I was considering, and that question was included in my original email to dbDrive last week, but like I said they never emailed me so I figured it would be better to err in the larger direction, because that would lower my tuning frequency instead of raise it.  But I guess you live and learn, this is my first ported box, and its not like making another box is gonna kill me, just cost me another Saturday and a couple more bucks worth of MDF.

Hopefully this time db Drive will reply to my email instead of just ignoring me, and let me know whether their figure includes the woofer size, and who knows I suppose it could include the port as well.  For those of you who rate customer service as a high priority when purchasing car audio, I would not recommend db Drive.  I do not appreciate being ignored.

Joe
JosefSchmidt 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 8:07 PM / IP Logged  

ok well heres an update.  I had enough scrap wood laying around to equal about .28 cu ft, which is how much too big my box is if db Drives specs include woofer and port displacement.  I figured it was worth a try as a last resort as I'm prolly gonna have to build another box anyway. 

So I got some jb weld and epoxied the s.o.b.s onto the floor of the box, and cut a new PVC port since I was decreasing the box volume enough to raise the tuning frequency to 45Hz. 

And it sounds the same.  So I'm designing a new box with the speaker and port facing the rear of the vehicle.  Anybody have any suggestions before I start?

Joe
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: December 07, 2004 at 8:20 PM / IP Logged  
Well, that is what you get for using manufacturer's recommended specs. Also, IMO, ported boxes sound like garbage.
What is the area of the second box that you have?
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JosefSchmidt 
Member - Posts: 8
Member spacespace
Joined: December 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 08, 2004 at 2:00 AM / IP Logged  

I need to get out the tape measure and measure the second box, a friend of mine let me borrow it, I have no idea what its specs are.  Its sitting here in front of me but I have no tape measure here at my apartment.

IMO, alot of ported boxes do sound like garbage, but alot of that is because people just go out and buy a woofer, and go out and buy a box and pay no mind to what kind of box the woofer is designed for or what kind of woofer the box is designed for.  When the box is done right, a ported box can sound almost as good as a sealed one.  I've had this same woofer in both a sealed and ported box before, and it was amazing in the ported one, the sealed one sounded decent but wasn't loud enough to keep up with my highs.

The one I'm using right now sounds like garbage, because apparently the manufacturer doesn't know sh*t about their own product.  Unfortunate, but I guess it means I'll just have to do the calculations myself.  Not like its real hard, I'm not 3/4 through an engineering degree for nothing.

Joe
97Avalonxls 
Copper - Posts: 115
Copper spacespace
Joined: November 17, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 08, 2004 at 2:31 PM / IP Logged  
i would recommend that you get the thiele small numbers for your subs and try to build a box based on whatever you get from winisdpro. i think that might fix the problem, perhaps the copany is just off. can't cost you more than a sheet or two of mdf.
spitra_01 
Member - Posts: 2
Member spacespace
Joined: June 19, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: December 08, 2004 at 11:20 PM / IP Logged  
have you try a vented style box
example:
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