issues with 2009 vw golf hid

My buddy put a set of HIDs in his mom's 2009 VW Golf and was having an intermittent issue with the HIDs not powering up on the first try. We figured it was just a power issue and decided to put a relay in. We got it all wired up (and I must say, it looked great... unless you really looked, you couldn't tell it wasn't factory) and with the car just on (not running) they worked great. However, once you actually started the car the relay starting going NUTS... very rapid clicking and eventually the HIDs just shut off. I tried running the ground straight to the chassis and just triggering it off the headlight + switched, I tried triggering the relay both by just one headlight, and by tying the 2 headlight + triggers together. I tried different relays, and I even tried using 2 separate relays (each 30a/40a). It doesn't have anything to do with the draw of the ballasts b/c the relay was going nuts even with just Pins 85 and 86 connected (nothing on 30 and 87). Please help.Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205

anyone???Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205

How were the relays wired - by intercepting the standard bulb connectors?

Well I tried a couple different ways (will just list the 85 / 86 pins) 1st Try: 85: Factory (-) signal from headlight 86: Factory (+) signal from headlight 2nd Try: 85: Chassis Ground 86: Factory (+) signal from headlight I also even tried reversing the pins in each try to see if maybe there was an internal diode in the relay... All tries ended in the same result. Perfectly fine with the vehicle just turned to "ON" but once started the relay would just go completely nuts (relay chatter). And this was with nothing connected to 30, 87, or 87a yet.Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205

Try #1 should be fine. No matter how I look at it - assuming normal tungsten or halogen etc bulbs (ie, not HIDs, flouros, LEDs etc) and no dimmer - the headlamp bulb pins must have the normal 12V across them. However, if they have current sensing that therefore disconnects the power... (but why for an under current?) If it were a traditional VW (come almost anything continental) I'd blame the usual crap wiring and connectors and ceramic fuses and... Though it wouldn't surprise me if it's some new sensing thing that they think is a great idea... Of course, cheap HIDs... (??) Or noise issues.... That's why I'm waiting for LEDs. They crap all over HIDs anyhow...

They were just plain factory H7 halogens. I believe there may be some sort of voltage stabilizer with the headlight circuit. Testing the headlight wires, with the car running I am still only getting approx. 12.6volts at the headlight wires with the headlight switch in the DRL position (only 2 positions, DRL and On. The headlights are on regardless and the "on" simply turns on the das lights), even though the battery is showing around 14v. However, when I change the headlight switch to "On", the voltage increases to approx. 13.6volts. They are a cheap set of HID's, but even with the HID's disconnected, and ONLY running the relay 85 / 86 pins I am getting the relay chatter.... which eliminates the HID's as the cause. When I keep the DMM on the wires, there does not appear to be any fluctuation in voltage between the car running or not running so I don't understand what is causing the relay chatter. My buddy is away on vacation at the moment, so I don't have the car, but I may try to test with a little better DMM to see if possibly there is a fluctuation in the voltage, but it is too quick for my DMM to recognize.... Any other ideas??? I'm at a loss.Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205

Hmmm - still seems "valid". And you're no noob - you have a huge reply count. (wth!! Am I that high? That's ridiculous - YOU guys are the experts on here!) Not that a high count means much - other than survival. But as I recall, offroadzj is another goodie. But, as DRLs I'd expect 6V etc if the H7s are series connected - not that that will show with a DMM (unless measuring across a bulb; a voltmeter in series through another bulb will measure the full applied voltage - as we know (but sometimes forget?) but novices fail to understand).    If it's PWM, the DMM should fluctuate, usually either ~+12V or ~0V. So in DRL mode I can see issues - eg, 2 series connections but with one bulb missing (hence open circuit), or PWM (maybe a diode & cap to hold the relay energised). Voltage stabilisation? That IMO gets back to PWM... for soft-starts or if over-voltage protection were used (I don't envisage zenor diodes etc) or even a dc-dc converter to avoid dips. So again, a diode and cap for a relay-coil ride-through of a few mSecs (IN4004 etc unless a high-speed Schottky was required). So yeah, I can think of a few possibilities. However I expect someone to jump in and state the obvious (like CAN-bus modulated beams, or security chipped H7 bulbs) or something even simpler... Maybe it's time to bite the bullet. That used to involve finding the wiring diagrams (for Jap cars!). These days I resort to my chant: Howard... Howard... Howard! (please... please... please...) [Not meaning to deflect credit from my other heroes on the12volt, but I usually pick on Howard - except if it involves a particular idiotic name!] But Kenny, though I shouldn't..., I want to see the solution - or problem - behind this one. But after my recent stupidity in the subs 2-4-8 Ohm switching thread, I may back off this one a bit. Howard... Howard... Howard...

It really has me stumped. I did think of possibly a lower voltage due to the DRL, but the DMM was showing 12v both by connecting each lead to each connection, and also by testing the (+) and grounding the (-) lead of the DMM to the battery. Then I thought maybe by some slim chance there wasn't enough juice to throw the relay (even though I HIGHLY doubt a bulb would draw less power than it would take to trip a relay). So I connected the connections of both sides together to the relay... still no dice. One other thing I noticed, but forgot about was that if I switched the actual switch to "ON" it would usually fix the problem. I would get about a second or so of relay chatter but then it would be fine. Which sort of supports the 6V DRL theory... but why would the 2 connections still show up as 12v on the DMM???Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205

Are you measuring across the bulbs for the DRL voltage? If not, you have a voltmeter of high impedance in series with a hi-wattage bulb (low resistance), hence measuring the full 12V etc (ie, a voltage divider with a low resistance and high resistance - the low-R is negligible, hence reading 12V). Place the voltmeter in between GND and any bulb GND and you'll measure 12V with the bulb powered.

The wiring is odd. There is a large plug that plugs into the headlight housing And everything is internal to the housing. When we put the HIDs in, we had to actually cut one of the mounted terminals off the housing. So there are now 2 female spade connectors that once went to the bulb. If I measure the Voltage between those 2 wires (that were originally connected directly to the bulb) I get 12volts. Likewise, when I measure the voltage using only the + connection (and grounding the other lead to the battery) I also get 12volts. The bulb itself is no longer connected.Kenny

Owner / Technician

KKD Garage LLC

Albany, NY 12205