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tuning 6X9 speakers


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prodigal 
Copper - Posts: 62
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Joined: April 07, 2006
Location: Saint Lucia
Posted: November 26, 2006 at 7:47 PM / IP Logged  
Everyone's going with subs but i've decided to try out 6X9s. According to my research 6X9s are supposed to sound better because all sound come from one point. However i need to know how to tune them. Can i use winisd for this purpose and if so how do i do it. Want these speakers to to produce everything with a good bass response. Also what is the most adviseable frequency to tune these speakers to. Thanks
Prodigal Son
jonathancullen 
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Posted: November 26, 2006 at 10:26 PM / IP Logged  
what do you mean all sound comes from one point? do you mean that you get the full range of sound from 6x9's because they play all different frequencys? i wouldnt get 6x9's unless i have absolutly no space for subs. if you got subs i would take the 6x9's out and just get good front speakers to get the best soundstage. thats just my opinion. and i wouldnt know what to tune them to.
aznboi3644 
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Posted: November 26, 2006 at 10:54 PM / IP Logged  
Um...sub bass you you can't really see where it's coming from...its not really directional.
And that thing about 6x9's sounding better than a sub...I'm not sure about that
jvillefinest 
Copper - Posts: 255
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Joined: December 29, 2003
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: November 27, 2006 at 10:15 AM / IP Logged  
what kind of vehicle...?
2007 Acura TSX
SQ setup in the works
prodigal 
Copper - Posts: 62
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 1:48 PM / IP Logged  
Yes in theory 6X9s do sound better because it acts like a 'point source'. My personal preferance is towards having a system in components: sub mids highs but i'm just experimenting with 6X9s. Some time ago we had a pair of pioneer 6X9s in a toyota corolla hatch back and it sounded incredible considering it was powered by only an equalizer. By point source it really means that all frequencies are produced from the same point. Well don't really have any vehicle for these speakers just experimenting but i own a 1991 mitsubishi galant and that's most likely where i'll try the speakers. Just as i said everyones going for subs hope i get some feedback from people who have success with 6X9s. Thanks
Prodigal Son
jonathancullen 
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 1:57 PM / IP Logged  
i have 6x9's, jl audio 3 way. before i had subs i would max them out to get the most bass i could from them, will 6x9's you just cant hit lower with. they are great for mids but as subwoofers they lack that punch. you will get your mids from them but dont expect much for low bass without distortion.
stevdart 
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 4:03 PM / IP Logged  

No, prodigal, in no "theory" does a 6 X 9 sound better than any similar-sized driver.  And at no time would you have had speakers "powered by only an equalizer".  An equalizer is not an amplifier.

You are confusing the benefit of point source speakers as replacement for a subwoofer.  Point source is (or could be) a benefit for use as front soundstage mid-bass/mid/tweeter components, not the subwoofer.  Use quality point source for your front soundstage, as their benefit will not be appreciated in the rear.  And use a sub;  there is no replacement for that.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
prodigal 
Copper - Posts: 62
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Joined: April 07, 2006
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 5:14 PM / IP Logged  
while i may agree that an equalizer is not an amplifier there are equalizers with booster capabilities. In fact i have one i used to use before. It has a dedicated subwoofer channel and the high power end had a booster because the speakers played much louder when connected to the equalizer than when connected directly to the HU. Now the word 'theory' is what i used. We now that nothing is perfect but we can appreciate and ideal situation. The ideal would be to have a full range speaker which could produce all frequencies thus giving a point source and if that is ever achieved the SQ from that speaker would outperform any component set up. Now let's look at the reality- it is virtually impossible (and not to mention costly) to produce an efficient full range speaker because it would be difficult for that speaker to play bass notes and midrange notes at the same time. In other words you would get alot of dips and peaks in the frequency response and this is where the component set up outperforms a full range speaker. Like i said i was talking in theory. Never-the-less i am still left with the dilema of trying to build a suitable box for my 6X9 speakers again i'll remind you people that i'm experimenting and looking for suggestions. Thank for the valuable contributions. Learning is dynamic and we can all learn from each other. Thanks
Prodigal Son
master5 
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 5:45 PM / IP Logged  

Theory aside..as far as what "sounds" better is always a subjective issue.

Now IMO since most 6x9s are used full range and mounted either on a rear deck or in some case's a door...point source if anything is hurt..after all what kind of a decent sound stage can come from the rear or pointing at your feet or ribs?

In other words I do not believe you can compare an actual subwoofer setup to a 6x9 or any full range speaker.

As azn states subwoofer frequencies are "omni-directional" but still..in reality we all know you can tell it is coming from the rear in most cases... but,I have built as well as judged many sq vehicles that either have actual subs up front...or enough midbass up front to where the bass truly is in the front stage..or at least has the "illusion" which makes no difference because it sounds incredible. This can be done only with proper placement and cross over setup and adjustment.

However..if a particular person is happy with the bass produced by 6x9's alone, then thats fine for them..I have heard some produce very loud and deep bass...but regardless...this has nothing to do with point source or comparing a full range to a sub. if you want alot of sub bass...use a sub in an enclosure. If you want good point source use any speaker setup that places the mids/highs at the same physical point. But..if the speaker is not physically positioned to give as close to perfect as possible imaging, it won't matter what kind or size speaker it is.

I can tell you one thing I know for sure..and you all can verify this as well. Take a crappy set of speakers, either self enclosed or installed into an enclosure.   Position them so they are equal distant from both your ears and see how good it sounds..well if any of you have speakers at your PC you already experinced this. If you take much better speakers and place one right next to your left leg..and another one 3 or 4 feet away point at you right leg you will see what I mean. The overall quality might sound better with the beter speaker in some cases..but the imaging will be much better with the cheaper speakers properly placed to reproduce the stereo.

But since it is not feasible in all but the most extreme custom vehicle to be seated with the speakers at ear level and equidistant from each ear..the best we can do is floor pods aiming up and towards the listener..this is where point source helps IMO. You can also use processors like the audiocontrol ESP with a center channel speaker which helps to create the illiusion of perfect imaging in a much less then perfect environment.

master5 
Silver - Posts: 1,123
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Posted: November 27, 2006 at 6:03 PM / IP Logged  

oh..to your question...lol

well if you are going to put the 6x9 into enclosure and tune them for the best possible bass response you should be able to use a program if the T/S parameters of the woofer cone are accepted by the program. (and if you can get the parameters). It can be ported as well but don't expect to tune a 6 x 9 to 30hz. More realistic would be 45hz and to be safe I would want at least a 12db slope, 18 or 24 if possible, and to use an amp that has a subsonic filter..otherwise if you try to get too much bass..good bye speaker.

Now unless the 6x9 is "bi-ampable" all you can really do is set the amp for "high pass" and dial in the lower frequencies until you can hear the 6 x 9 distorting..at that point back it down a bit and it should be optimal.

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