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door lock pulse too long?


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mmh1 
Copper - Posts: 117
Copper spacespace
Joined: May 10, 2005
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: September 21, 2007 at 5:31 PM / IP Logged  
Hi,
I've just fitted an alarm to a 1997 VW Golf VR6 it seems that the pulse for unlock is too long and lowers the windows due to the comfort system.
Is there a way to overcome this? The factory default is 0.7 sec with an option of 4 sec also. I have set it to 0.7sec but it still lowers the windows a little every time I unlock.
The locking system is a Positive Vacuum system. Can anyone advise me what to do?
The alarm has 6 wires to control the c/locking labelled as:
BLACK - Lock   NC (+7A)
GREEN - Lock   COM (+7A)
PINK   - Lock   NO (+7A)
WHITE - Unlock NC (+7A)
PURPLE - Unlick COM (+7A)
ORANGE - Unlock NO (+7A)
Also a separate Grey wire wich outputs a negative for 30sec on arming. I have used a SPDT relay to change the output to a positive for 30sec and connected it to the cars lock wire and so the autoclosure works well.
The only problem now is the unlocking causing the windows to go down a little.
Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
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Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: September 21, 2007 at 7:25 PM / IP Logged  
You can try to 5 wire the lock and unlock wire so that you trigger only the motor wire and not the BCM side of the wire that also controls the window circuit.
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
KPierson 
Platinum - Posts: 3,527
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Joined: April 14, 2005
Location: Ohio, United States
Posted: September 21, 2007 at 10:13 PM / IP Logged  
You could also possibly pulse the ignition circuit with the door lock circuit (I would relay isolate it).  The windows shouldn't drop if the igniton is on.  There may be a host of other issues with doing this (RAP, for one, if equipped) but it may be an easy fix.
Kevin Pierson
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 2:32 AM / IP Logged  

Sound like you are testing the install and not  "letting it sit" On a MkIII Golf if you turn thr alarm off within the total close time set ie about 15secs. this will happen. Just wait 30secs. and then see if it happens. In real life how often are you going to turn alarm off within 12secs.?

Kevin P might be right I've never tried that but Jeff, its a vacuum system so NO MOTOR WIRES!

Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
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Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 9:20 AM / IP Logged  
howie ll wrote:

Sound like you are testing the install and not "letting it sit" On a MkIII Golf if you turn thr alarm off within the total close time set ie about 15secs. this will happen. Just wait 30secs. and then see if it happens. In real life how often are you going to turn alarm off within 12secs.?

Kevin P might be right I've never tried that but Jeff, its a vacuum system so NO MOTOR WIRES!

GRAY - LOCK and GREEN - UNLOCK
These wires are found in the connector on the side of the driver's kick panel going into the molex at the driver's door. Please see image that I took on the 1997 GTi that I installed a remote starter / alarm system into last year...... there are wires for the vacuum system as you can see by the image.
LOCK & UNLOCK WIRES
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
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Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 12:14 PM / IP Logged  
This would be costly and time-consuming, but you could buy two DEI 528T pulse timers.
The output of the 528T can be set to be as short as a half second.
Use one to activate lock, the other to activate the unlock.
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 12:39 PM / IP Logged  

Jeff, these are NOT MOTOR wires they are the trigger wires they join the same colours from the other door to the vacuum pump behind the r/hand tail light. In your fine picture you can clearly see the vacuum line.

Chris you are right, I use that method to get differential closing on late E36 3 series BMW's. If you have the roof down initiating lock will open it a fraction (about 11/2 secs). I end up with a relay set to 33secs for the roof a relay set (on arm) for 2secs controlled by the alarms auxilliary outputs.for deadlocking and a timer to turn off locks after 0.8secs.

If you read my last post you will see why the pulse timer relay is unneccessary unless MMH1 has SET UNLOCK TIME DELAY AS WELL AS LOCK OR LEFT ON A 3.5 SEC PULSE (remember the old M/Benz Audi's?)

SORRY YOU TWO, THAT JUST OCCURRED TO ME

I've done loads of MkIII's, if you trn off alarm inside of the initial time delay it will always bring down the windows for what's left of that delay. You get a similar result with E36 BMW where you can turn off the alarm inside the delay time but the doors will stay locked

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 12:55 PM / IP Logged  

PS for Jeff's benefit (Velocity motors) I know I'm being anal but the only way to do a 5wire or MORE CORRECTLY MOTOR INTERRUPT would be to go into the rear pump unit and go into the leads coming from the circuit board to the motor and having stripped and repaired them (M/Benz, Audi and VW are all basically the same) you don't want to do that!

In other words the lock motors on these vehicles were pumps not electric solenoids.

Velocity Motors 
Moderator - Posts: 12,488
Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Fabrication. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: March 08, 2002
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 3:33 PM / IP Logged  
No worries howie II, just giving up different option on the board to see if it viable or not.
Jeff
Velocity Custom Home Theater
Mobile Audio/Video Specialist
Morden, Manitoba CANADA
howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: September 22, 2007 at 6:29 PM / IP Logged  

No problems Jeff its just that I've been back in the UK since 83, installing Clifford product since '90 when we imported them privately, I seem to have spent the intervening time mostly on BMW, VW-Audi and Japanese grey (fast and furious wannabee) imports.

I'm a complete rookie when it comes to GM Chrysler and US Ford except Mustang and Focus, my only by-pass knowledge is DEI 'cause that's all we've got here, hell I've got 20 assorted Clifford, Viper etc T shirts because I've written the hymnsheet on European cars. Any knowledge I have on Fortin, Trilogix, Compustar etc. has been kindly given to me by KarTune Man, Enice and Swerks.

You may or may not realise that Euro GM 's (Vauxhall-Opel) are more similar electrically to VW than their US brethren, Honda Civic and CRX  are made here, and are different to US made variants (Just go on the US and UK Honda websites, look at interiors and you will see what I mean)

Alarms are different too, I might start a post to enlighten our US friends on CAT I alarms, direction indicators, fenders v.  wings, trunks and  hoods v. boots and bonnects! 

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