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parklights and turn signals as one.


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themartindobson 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: March 16, 2014
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 5:47 PM / IP Logged  
Hey Guys, my father-in-law has an older project car that he has built for the ground up and has asked me to do the wiring. 12v system.
Now, he has chosen to use two LEDs on the front wheel ferrings for usage of a park light and turn signal purpose. One LED per side of the vehicle. LED has a single input.
Basically I need the LEDs to be able to turn on with the park lights and flash with the turn signals. I've worked through 9 different revisions of my circuit and have come up with one final conclusion. However, I come to you guys today to see if you can pick it apart and even possibly make it more efficient.
I have figured that I need 2 SPDT relays per side of the vehicle so the diagram below will be only for one side of the car. I'm sure that you guys can use your imagination for the other side of the car.
So without further ado, thoughts?
parklights and turn signals as one. -- posted image.
themartindobson 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: March 16, 2014
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 5:50 PM / IP Logged  
Erm. Nevermind. I traced out the lines and if the park lights are on then it will have issues flashing. I might need to look deeper in to this… :(
howie (aka: harryharris)
Silver - Posts: 355
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 6:40 PM / IP Logged  
Soooo much simpler to use separate lights as do most car manufacturers, and also cheaper. parklights and turn signals as one. -- posted image.
Test before boxing up.
Ween 
Platinum - Posts: 1,364
Platinum spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2004
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 8:55 PM / IP Logged  
Hi,
Use this: https://www.the12volt.com/relays/page5.asp#pts
Modify it by taking the '+12 volt from turn signal' and connecting it also to terminal 87. Don't use the connection labeled 'fused +12v'.
Connect the parking light wire to terminal 87a. Adding a resistor to the parking light input can reduce the current to the LED, dimming it.
You may need to adjust the values in the circuit depending on the relay used. Hope this helps.
Mark
themartindobson 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: March 16, 2014
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 9:47 PM / IP Logged  
@harryharris - Definitely easier, but not nearly as cool… plus I wasn't the one who built the car, lol.
@ween - thanks! I'll give that a try! I like the idea of using less relays to achieve the same output. Much appreciated!
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: March 16, 2014 at 11:07 PM / IP Logged  
LOL - it's a fun problem isn't it?
Have a look at exLED's TPC Module Ver.2 - 2Color (2Way) Turn + Position Module.
They have other versions if that's not the correct behavior.
Otherwise to do what you want to do, you either need to move the flasher can so that the indicator switch switches relays that connect the can to the relevant flasher whilst disconnecting the park (or stop or reverse) signal to the LED/lamp; OR incorporate a timing function (ie, turns off the park/clearance/stop/reverse during the flasher on & off cycles).
Those exledusa units do the latter.
You could build your own version using a PICAXE 08 (08M2) for maybe $5 - $10 but that requires some DIY circuitry, programming (or cut&paste) skills, and a serial interface.
themartindobson 
Member - Posts: 6
Member spacespace
Joined: March 16, 2014
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posted: April 12, 2014 at 12:14 PM / IP Logged  
Alrighty, another question for you guys. Hopefully you can shed some light on this predicament we're having.
So we have all the wiring in the car hooked up right now and everything seems to be working flawlessly except for the turn signals.
Back story:
Front LED marker lights are these: http://www.pmlights.com/products.cfm?cId=1&fid=54&pId=1438#V168XA
We are having this light do a dual duty of Parklights and Turn Signals/Hazards Priority
Rear Lights are a dual filament incandescent bulb
We are having Filament 1 do: Parklights only
Filament 2 do: Brake lights with Turn Signal Priority
The front LED park lights are being controlled through the steering stalk and then goes in to the relay system that @ween mentioned in post #4.
The rear filament(2) is being controlled with a relay system that is very similar to the fronts but with the capacitor and resistor removed. We originally had it hooked up but removed the cap/resistor for troubleshooting.
--------
The hazard switch controls a DPDT relay to break open the feed coming from the steering stalk and put the hazard lines on the outputs to each corner light. This is working perfectly. Once the hazard switch comes on, all 4 lights start to blink perfectly.
However, when hazards are going we have found that when using non-LED based Flasher relays in our "keepitclean" fuse box this happens:
RF relay clicks on - stays on
LF relay clicks with the hazard flasher relay
RR relay clicks with the hazard flasher relay
LR relay clicks with the hazard flasher relay
Not sure why the RF relay only clicks on and stays on when the other three click with the hazard relay. I had a feeling that it was due to the LF capacitor.
---------------
Brake lights work as planned
Parklights work as planned.
Turn signals do not work without extra assistance from a test light on the pin 86 of one of the rear relays.
I have tried removing a rear relay and putting a jumper in the relay socket between pin 87 and pin 30 (basically bypassing the relay) here I have been able to get the turn signal on that side to work but we lose brake lights as they're pin 87a in the relay system.
I'm officially out of ideas on how to fix so hopefully you guys can think of something….
Ween 
Platinum - Posts: 1,364
Platinum spacespace
Joined: August 01, 2004
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 12, 2014 at 3:08 PM / IP Logged  
Steering stalk/turn signal switch being used is from what vehicle?
howie (aka: harryharris)
Silver - Posts: 355
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2014
Location: Florida, United States
Posted: April 12, 2014 at 4:25 PM / IP Logged  
The answer to your last post lies within my first reply because I'm afraid I'm one jump ahead and many years of experience down the road.
You're either getting a voltage feedback from the LEDs or the relays are having a latching effect on each other.
The only way to solve your problem with LEDs is to have separate "bulbs".
Test before boxing up.
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
Gold spacespace
Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: April 12, 2014 at 7:24 PM / IP Logged  
Try a LED compatible flasher.
Or wire bulbs in parallel - at least for testing.
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