Weird relay problem

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briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 6:24 PM / IP Logged

I was transplanting a Best Buy installed remote start. Since the two cars were almost the same I generally reversed the removal for the install. The parking lights were working fine for a week (with lock/unlock and after the car started). Then they quit working.

I checked the wiring diagram on this site on how to use a SPDT relay to convert a negative trigger to + output and this is NOT how they did it. What they did was they tied together 87 & 86 (black and yellow) and went to +12 with it. Then 85 was trigger from DEI remote start. Then 30 was output to parking lights.

This is so different than the diagram, yet it worked. For a week anyway. I have checked that the relay is getting the power and negative trigger it expects.

I'm very perplexed, help is appreciated.

Brian

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 6:27 PM / IP Logged

Forgot two more points:

Without even checking the wiring I bought a new relay thinking I had fried the 20/30 due to have two 50w fog lights + parking lights on. New Porter & Brumfeld 30/40 also acts dead, like the first Bosch 20/30. No click.

profuse007

Gold - Posts: 2,015

Joined: October 20, 2002

Location: Texas, United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:02 PM / IP Logged

-relays usuallly last for a long long time.

-the two foglights have under 10amps together, so the relay cant be underpower. each relay above is at least 20 amps, it will be fine with 2 foglights.

-the above reverse polarity is correct.

85-from alarm(-)

86-12volt

30-12volt

87-output(+)

Houston,TX

"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

NowYaKnow

Gold - Posts: 1,217

Joined: December 18, 2002

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:05 PM / IP Logged

"What they did was they tied together 87 & 86 (black and yellow) and went to +12 with it. Then 85 was trigger from DEI remote start. Then 30 was output to parking lights."

There is nothing wrong with wiring a relay that way so you can cross that off the list. So you know 86 is going to 12v power correct? There is no fuse inline blown or anything? If so, grab yourself a jumper wire and hit 85 with ground and the relay will energize. If it doesn't then either 86 doesn't have power, the relay is bad, the ground your jumper wire is on is bad, or there is a bad connection somewhere. As I'm sure you've seen relays operation is really very simple not a whole lot to them. Usually ends up being something simple so have a look! Are you using a relay w/ a socket? Look around for any corrosion or loose pins in that socket. Good luck,

Mike

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:10 PM / IP Logged

If the above is correct (even though it's NOT wired as you or the diagram on this site indicates) and the relay is plenty big enough, then why did it stop working?

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:25 PM / IP Logged

If I measure between 85 and 86 (+12 and negative input trigger) I get 0.75 volts.

If I go across chassis ground and 30 (output +12) I get 0.

If I go across 86 and 30 I get 13 volts with engine running.

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:39 PM / IP Logged

Chassis ground to negative trigger is 0.56V.

Chassis ground to 86 and 87 is about 13V with engine running.

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 7:41 PM / IP Logged

One clarification on last post. Ground to negative trigger is 0.56 when relay is NOT plugged in. Ground to trigger is 13V when relay is plugged in.

I'll stop posting now and wait for some thoughts.... Weird relay problem -- posted image. almost sounds like my DEI brain is fried???

profuse007

Gold - Posts: 2,015

Joined: October 20, 2002

Location: Texas, United States

Posted: November 11, 2003 at 11:13 PM / IP Logged

a lil info on relays since youre not used to it, it will answer your question better. heres how it works:

85 and 86 will power the coils inside

30 is pivoted to 87 and 87a, how is it pivoted?

the coils pivot from 87a to 87

e.i. if the coil is not on, 30 and 87a is connected

if the coil is on, 30 and 87 is conected

30-87/87a e.i. if input (+), then output (+), samething for (-)

i always suggest installer to learn about relay b4 they tackle on a project. no offense brian.....

Houston,TX

"The two most common elements in the universe are H+ and stupidity" (Ellison).

briandors

Member - Posts: 45

Joined: August 29, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 12, 2003 at 8:26 AM / IP Logged

profuse-

i understand how relays work. since i have already confirmed the input+12V is good, and we know the output+12V is not working, i believe the problem lies with the the relay not receiving the negative trigger. it is the only other relay connection. that is why i posted voltages between ground and trigger (0.56V) and +12V and trigger (0.75V).

i believe now this is not a relay problem but more likely with the negative trigger. i would like someone who knows the DEI 551R to comment on the measurements i am seeing.

brian

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