How to make one button car start?

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Garth

Member - Posts: 11

Joined: December 13, 2002

Location: Canada

Posted: November 25, 2006 at 11:21 PM / IP Logged

You never mentioned exactly what car you are wanting to hook this up into. Most cars over 1996 will give error codes into the computers (ECU, TCM, etc)if circuits are acting any way other than how they have been designed (the joys of modern technology).

As Master had mentioned - you can use an immobilizer with an RFID chip. Personally, this is what I'm looking at for a project car for the shop. RFID chip, seat sensor and then a trigger, such as push button start (like you want) or even go high tech with a thumb print scanner. Sitting in the seat will trigger relays to allow the immobilizer to trigger the (-) input for the remote starter to engage ALL applicaple circuits for starting the car. Once the vehicle is running, you would use a push button, or print scanner to send a ground pulse to a relay bank to keep the ignition cylinder circuits powered up until you push the button or thumb scanner for shutdown.

But just my idea... patent pending

Garth Shostal

Ground Pounders - Automotive Security

Est. 1998

master5

Silver - Posts: 1,123

Joined: October 10, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 25, 2006 at 11:58 PM / IP Logged

Garth that is awesome. I just love whacky high tech projects like that. I really am from the school that virtually anything is possible.....like my future project...

I want to swap a ford 7.2 powerstroke deisel motor into an 05 up mustang..set it up to run on straight vegetable oil (which we have alreay done to a ford truck and a VW) and use it for exibition drag racing as promotion. Many say it can't be done...my logic is "why can't it be done?"

I am waiting for a post back from him with a diagram of what he did so far..he claims it has worked..but has issues..so perhaps it is an older vehicle. And he said he has used nothing but relays and capacitors as well. Now that I can see a problem with for sure. I in no way trust a capacitor alone as a timer to safely and relaibly start a vehicle this way.

colouny

Member - Posts: 31

Joined: March 20, 2004

Location: Lithuania

Posted: November 26, 2006 at 11:59 AM / IP Logged

200kb sheme PICTURE

80 Kb sheme PICTURE

As I promised, here is my schematic drawing. I’m telling you now, how this thing works. I’m using 10 relays, 3 big and 7 small relays, and 4 diodes 1N4004, and one cap. Size of the cap is selected by the time I need the car to start. And it may vary according to air weather and other things.

1. The ignition on module has 4 relays, of which is 3 big (40 amps) for providing power to IGN, IGN1, ACC cables, 2 small (15 amps) for controlling big relays. The only condition for the ignition to turn on is brake pressed, (when brake is pressed it gives positive signal for relay, which connects the button control line, when button pressed relay closes, and keeps the ignition.

2. The second part is starting module; there I use 3 small relays (15 amps) and two diodes.

Conditions used for starting is charging signal from generator (while it is not charging there should be negative signal on that cable, after charging is started becomes positive, and cuts the power for relay), ignition (positive signal), handbrake (negative signal). It is an automated starting, when all of these conditions are satisfied, and button is pressed it spins the starter until the charging begins. If it is not enough to start the car, I use cap to hold the relay for the time which is needed for car to start (usually the cap is needed).

3. Third part is for engine shut down. I Use 2 relays only. Conditions for this part is; charging signal, handbrake signal, ignition, and brake signal (not used in the schematic). When all conditions are satisfied and button is pressed it relay closes and cut the negative for all the system.

Problems with this construction is that sometimes it turns on ignition and starts the car at the same time, some times it is hard to turn of the ignition whn the car is running because it turns on immediately. Sometimes it there is no hold for starting so I need to pres the button for few times. So I need some delays, disabling something, or…….…..

Notice: for remote starting is different configuration of inputs for controlling.

Notice: if something else is needed, or need some info about something jus post! Thanks.

Car Audio and car security systems installer. Best in Car audio.

colouny

Member - Posts: 31

Joined: March 20, 2004

Location: Lithuania

Posted: November 26, 2006 at 12:46 PM / IP Logged

Fixed Link To shematic drawing

Sorry here is the fixed link.

notice: if anyone has good ideas, post them. thank you.

Car Audio and car security systems installer. Best in Car audio.

master5

Silver - Posts: 1,123

Joined: October 10, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 26, 2006 at 4:12 PM / IP Logged

I can't get any links on either reply to work. anyhow, this link is my idea which I think is more appropriate, safer, simpler, less parts and inexpensive. See what you think...

one_button_start.jpg

colouny

Member - Posts: 31

Joined: March 20, 2004

Location: Lithuania

Posted: November 27, 2006 at 1:13 AM / IP Logged

Simple, but i will have to hold the button until the car starts, and at the same time it will turn off it self. Or maybe i understood your shematic wrong. Could you please show the ingition on part, starting part, and turn off part. Thank you in advance.

Car Audio and car security systems installer. Best in Car audio.

master5

Silver - Posts: 1,123

Joined: October 10, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 27, 2006 at 2:31 AM / IP Logged

No it shouldn't....

what happens is the first relay is at an "at rest" condition so when you press the button the ground from its goes right thru the relay...from 30 to 87a...to trigger the latching relay "cluster"..which turns on the 1st ignition and other relays you will activate from the 12v+ output of it.

Now..heres where it get interesting..but still simple. Once the lacthing relay circuit is "activated" aside from ignitions...accys...being powered up...it sends 12v+ to the coil (86) of the second relay in the diagram. Now if you just simply pressed the button again the vehicle would shut down...but...if you release the hand brake first the ground goes away from the other side of the coil on relay 2....and that in turn deactivates it...sending 12v+ to the other side of the coil of relay 1 (86).

This in turn will energize it when the button is pressed again..the relay will "jump" to the ground and it goes to 87...which that ground or negative is sent to another relay to start the car..(the -output from relay 1 pin 87 to 85 of the starter relay, 86 and 30 to constant fused, and 87 to crank wire). So yes..you just hold the button until the car starts..should not be a problem at all..a good running car should start right up but either way..as long as the voltage is good..it should start before there is a problem with the latching circuit shutting down.

Now once it is running to shut the engine down you simply park and set the hand brake...this will send a ground to relay 2..which will take the 12v away from the coil of relay 1...so when you press the button again it sends the second pulse to the latching relay circuit and shuts the motor down and removes power from all the relay coils so no excessive current draw will kill the battery (remember..even 1 relay sticking is 150ma...more then enough to kill a battery overnight so you need to take that into consideration as well.)

Let me know if you fully understand this and think it will be good for you..I can't really think of any other way that would not be too complicated for me to figure out quickly.

So..to sum it up...press once....car powers up ignitions and accys as needed.....release parking brake, press button again...car starts and runs....park and set the parking brake, press button...car shuts down. easy as 1,2,3 with a parking brake in between basically.

All you should need to do this besides some wire and connectors is 9 or 10 relays(SPDT standard 30/40a automotive) depending on how many wires at the ignition harness you need to power up..some 1amp diodes and a momentary button.

master5

Silver - Posts: 1,123

Joined: October 10, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 27, 2006 at 2:55 AM / IP Logged

oh another thing just to let you know..the latching relay circuit can sometimes be sensitive. Now this shouldn't be a problem in this case and it is worth a try...it is only 4 relays, 2 diodes and a little time.

If for some reason it doesn't work right or shuts down before start..I can tell you where to get a heavy duty mechanical latching relay..a bit more expensive but since it is mechanical it is not subject to the voltage/current sensitivity issues with switching that an electrical latching relay circuit can be in some cases.

So let me know..I have a feeling it will work great one way or the other.

mjwood0

Member - Posts: 38

Joined: November 08, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 27, 2006 at 6:08 AM / IP Logged

The idea is not to use a key at all, right?

You also said you had a remote start unit.

Just thinking out loud, but if I remember correctly, my Viper 560xv had an input to mount a "remote start button" directly in the car. Using this, with some form of bypass for the brake shutdown switch while you are in the car should allow the car to stay running without the key.

Just a thought to make things perhaps a bit simpler.

master5

Silver - Posts: 1,123

Joined: October 10, 2006

Location: United States

Posted: November 27, 2006 at 2:12 PM / IP Logged

mjwood0, if you read back I had suggested that already.

He is doing an RS as well..the thing is he wants it so you press the button once...it powers up ignition..press again start....press again..off

Another problem with using the RS button is that it will shut down as soon as you step on the brake. even if you used a circuit or switch instead of the brake the RS would eventually time out regardless.

So it is a good suggestion, but not what he has in mind.

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