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12'' sub opinions?


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willdkartunes 
Copper - Posts: 250
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 01, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: March 29, 2008 at 9:48 PM / IP Logged  
I am currently looking for a new 12" subwoofer for my car after blowing the 12w7 I had in there. I am looking for something that hits just as hard (preferably harder) as the 12w7 but will last longer than the 2 months that I had it! I am looking for strictly SPL purposes and I have a 1.75 cu ft ported enclosure with the port tuned to 32hz and am running a JL Audio 1000/1 slash amp, so any sub that can take 1000 watts rms and is loud as hell I am open to consider. Here are the couple that I had in mind but haven't had experience with any of them: The RE Audio SX12, Image Dynamics IDMAX12, PPI pro 12, SPL W-12, and the DB Drive plw12 are the few I had in mind. I am kind of leaning towards the DB drive or the RE Audio....? Any opinions on these or any other brand not mentioned here would be much appreciated.
Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Steven Kephart 
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Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 30, 2008 at 1:55 AM / IP Logged  

You have a lot of SQ subs listed there.  I'd recommend looking at SPL specific drivers.  Check out Incriminator Audio linked below for some pretty killer SPL designed subs.  But also make sure you are setting your system up correctly.  That will make sure you don't blow your next sub.

http://www.incriminatoraudio.com/products.htm

willdkartunes 
Copper - Posts: 250
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Posted: March 30, 2008 at 3:36 PM / IP Logged  
These were the best I could come up with without having to completely change my whole setup. I pretty much want to stick with the JL amp and the ported box that's in my trunk because I don't really have anymore room for anything different. That IA stuff looks killer but I couldn't power the death penalty series and I would be overpowering the lethal injection series... let me see if I could possibly fit a bigger amp... I would definitely like to stick with the JL 1000/1 if possible. Not really trying to set records with this car. I use it as a daily driver and my ears are just VERY bass hungry. Not sure what was up with the 12w7. It was loud and sq was great to my liking but didn't last long at all. Set input sens. correctly, set up the amp according to JL's recomendations as far as Q, freq, slope, infrasonic filter, etc. I also built an enclosure exactly to JL's specs. According to the JL dealer I talked to, they said that 12w7 is only rated for 750watts rms and I was definitely pushing it to it's limits. That could be... but JL Audio is suppose to be soooo good according to everyone. 12'' sub opinions? -- posted image. Not bad stuff in my opinion but definitely overpriced. So Steven, you think the IA DP12 is louder than the 12w7......provided I give the 1500watts rms to it? I'm looking for bass that will straight up make me deaf. The W7 was all right but I need something louder. Which probably means I'm going to have to dump that piddly 1000 watt amp.... so be it. If I need to I will.
Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
Steven Kephart 
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Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: March 30, 2008 at 5:18 PM / IP Logged  

The problem is that the W7 and 1000/1 wasn't a good choice for you.  The W7 is one of the best SQ subs on the market, and it can get really loud.  But if you want pure SPL, there are better choices.   The 12W7 blew because too much power was sent to it.  Whether this happened because the gains were set too high, or you turned the system up past clipping; it was still user error and not the fault of the equipment. If you push even the best stuff beyond their designed limits and they fail, it doesn't mean they are overpriced.  There is nothing piddly about the 1000/1.  It is an incredibly well built amplifier that can produce a lot of power even at higher impedances.  The problem is that you need a lot more power at lower impedances, and that's where other amplifiers will be a better choice for you. 

I'd suspect the IA subs set up correctly could get louder than the W7.  This will more than likely require a different enclosure and amplifier to get it there.  We have some SPL competitors here that could answer that question better than I can though.

willdkartunes 
Copper - Posts: 250
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Posted: March 30, 2008 at 5:50 PM / IP Logged  
I certainly wasn't knocking the reliability, or quality of JL Audio. I especially love their amplifiers which are capable of producing a true 1000 watts from 1.5-4 ohms. I also don't think that their being overpriced had anything to do with it blowing. I certainly take full responsibility for the 12w7 failing. I completely agree that I pushed it past it's limits due to me wanting more bass out of it than it could provide.  I also meant exactly what you said, that I need more watts at lower ohm ratings than that slash amp can produce. Sorry I wasn't far more exact on my wording. I do believe that the cheapest scenario in my situation would be to just drop another 12 in my box hooked up to the same JL 1000/1 slash amp. Maybe in the future I will consider switching the complete setup... By the way, I can't find any dealers that sells IA products??? Out of the subs I listed, which one would you choose? I don't mind sq but I'm really looking for something loud. If any of the subs that I have listed have the capability of getting as loud or louder than my previous 12w7, then I have achieved what I set out to do. If none of the subs listed are capable of this than I would love to know so I can come up with an entirely new game plan. As I have said before, I have no experience with any of these subs (with the exception of the PPI sub) and would love advice as to which would be "the better of the bunch".
Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
sedate 
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Posted: March 30, 2008 at 9:23 PM / IP Logged  
Kephart wrote:

The problem is that the W7 and 1000/1 wasn't a good choice for you.

Agreed - but we can certainly work with that beautiful (and NOT overpriced or overrated) amplifier -

wildkar wrote:
I pretty much want to stick with the JL amp and the ported box that's in my trunk because I don't really have anymore room for anything different.

wildkar wrote:
I do believe that the cheapest scenario in my situation would be to just drop another 12 in my box hooked up to the same JL 1000/1 slash amp.

Changing your diaphram in this situation will change absolutely NOTHING about the bass your system produces.  Nothing at all.  Okay.

You do NOT need another amp - that thing will make you deaf if you just hook it up to the RIGHT drivers -

I think your problem, wildkar, is that you are trying to get output from a single subwoofer - this doesn't really work - especially when you talking about a daily driver and all - jumping about brands isn't going to help do anything but get poorer - and I'm sure NONE of the subs you've listed are in any material way better than a freakin 12w7 -

For that thing to sound good at all you must have it a >2cft box?  JL gives specs for that woofer through a range so some precision would be helpful - but eitherway you need CONE AREA - not another hugely expensive woofer your going to blow.

To that end - why don't you try a PAIR of ported 12's?  At 500watts RMS you have a massive number of choices that would perform virtually identically to (at least as far as a car moving down the road at 60mph) a w7 in terms of SQ - and get ya another 6db ~ 8db  easy.  Or you could really get serious and parallel three 8-ohm 10's - that'd take care of your output problem real nice.

Reading over your posts, I can assure you that another 12 inch sub isn't going to do anything for you except lighten your wallet.

Remember - CONE AREA.

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
willdkartunes 
Copper - Posts: 250
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Joined: February 01, 2006
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Posted: March 31, 2008 at 11:40 AM / IP Logged  

That all sounds very nice. If I had the luxury of going with more "cone area", rest assured I would definitely take that route if it was an option. Unfortunately I am dealing with a 2008 Mitsubishi Lancer in which the ported 1.75 cu ft enclosure takes up almost all of that trunk space quite nicely. That is why I am sticking with a single 12. I am not about to take the back seat out and build a wall. lol. I also find it very amusing that you talk about a 12W7 as if it were the god of all 12" drivers. It is an excellent driver don't get me wrong, but for strictly SPL purposes it can easily be beaten. I have been doing a lot of reading on that IA stuff! Thank you very much Steven for mentioning it. One death penalty series 12 should be more than sufficient for my needs. I guarantee I will not blow it on 1000watts, yet according to the test results from chad hicks, the output of that sub seeing that low power is quite impressive! (while 1000watts rms is not really low by any means, it is low compared to say 5000watts) I believe it is certainly possible for me to stick with the same enclosure and amplifier and only switch drivers and probably get more decibals than the godly 12w7.

sedate wrote:

Changing your diaphram in this situation will change absolutely NOTHING about the bass your system produces.  Nothing at all.  Okay.

Nothing at all??? I wouldn't go that far...

Do whatever makes you happy in life without diminishing the happiness of others
skee-weezy 
Copper - Posts: 177
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Joined: March 08, 2008
Location: Michigan, United States
Posted: March 31, 2008 at 12:33 PM / IP Logged  

considering what u already have.... i think u should probably consider steppin up to a 13w7.... only thing u will need to change would be your box.....

the image dynamics is a great sub, but like the other guy said i think u might be barking up the wrong tree as far your choices in subs... if it's raw un-adulterated bass u seek... i should probably look at some ofthe more common stuff... not to mention... u can save a buck or two... and most times if u blow em up... u can do an over-the-counter swap with an authorized dealer... no sending the sub out and waiting for it to come back......

NEVER FORGET..... JL AUDIO IS A 'SOUND QUALITY COMPANY'... they don't own a single spl or db related record.. and u know what.. they have to aspirations to do so...

there can be only one.......
dustysnakes 
Member - Posts: 25
Member spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2008
Location: Mississippi, United States
Posted: March 31, 2008 at 12:35 PM / IP Logged  
hey man hate to be the shop guy around here but just from personal experiance (8 in my car) the re sx12 is a really nice sounding sub super clean as long as you pump the power to it im running 4 merlin series md1d's on mine. and they will get loud but the port has alot to do with it. and it just so happens ehhh heeemmm ... that i have one in the shop clearanced right now for just over 2 bills sorry guys you know how slow business is lately
keep it greasy
aznboi3644 
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Joined: May 01, 2006
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Posted: March 31, 2008 at 6:01 PM / IP Logged  
13W7 wont be a big improvement.
If you want SPL than you need a new enclosure and more SPL oriented subwoofer.
SPL and small enclosure don't really go hand and hand except for some fart boxes.
1000 watts can get you a lot with the right setup.
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