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2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13


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Steven Kephart 
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Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: June 24, 2008 at 8:16 PM / IP Logged  

swargy wrote:
  but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease.

How can you have that opinion if your only experience is with an improperly set up W7?  Linear motor topology woofers like the W7 are in a leage of their own IMO.  But then based on your posts I'd say you are looking more for output than SQ so I would say you made the correct decision.  I hope you enjoy your new system! 2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13 - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.

swargy 
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Location: United States
Posted: June 25, 2008 at 6:21 PM / IP Logged  
Steven Kephart wrote:

swargy wrote:
but in my opinion it isn't worth buying the w7 since the sq increase in minimal and at these powers the spl would probably decrease.

How can you have that opinion if your only experience is with an improperly set up W7? Linear motor topology woofers like the W7 are in a leage of their own IMO. But then based on your posts I'd say you are looking more for output than SQ so I would say you made the correct decision. I hope you enjoy your new system! 2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13 - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.

I might be changing my mind slowly. I was looking at the specs of the 13w7 and the 13w6v2. I was also looking at enclosures. With 2 w6s I would need a larger enclosure than just 1 w7 and I dont have that much trunk space. Also 1 13w7 will be louder and have better sq then the w6. So I'm about 90% I'm getting the 13w7.
the 13w7 displaces 5.9 L of air while 2 12w6 will only displace 5 L of air so it will be louder.
Another reason I was drawn in towards this sub is because I went to see it at a local dealer and the sight of it just sitting on a table just made my mouth drool :)
also I could either really overpower the w6 or slightly underpower the w7.
I had one last question though. Would it be fine to run the 13w7 at 800W? Would I be reaching the limits of the sub or not even come close?
Also.... Would it be a bad idea to run my 1 ohm stable amp at .75 ohms? I would probably be pulling about 1600W then.
thanks
Steven Kephart 
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Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
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Posted: June 25, 2008 at 8:17 PM / IP Logged  

800 watts would work just fine with the W7.  I am in the process of building a system using a single 12W7 and a 500/1.  What's nice is the lower power allows me to build the enclosure a little larger without worrying about the customer damaging the sub. 

I wouldn't recommend running the amp below it's rated impedance.  It will more than likely eventually damage the amplifier, and the damage may not stop at just the amp.  Keep in mind that power ratings are only helpful as guides, not as audio laws.  As long as you are happy with the results, don't worry about the fact that you aren't loading the amplifier to it's limits.  Because to be honest, the difference in output produced from a sub running at 800 watts compared to 1600 watts is only 3dB which isn't that noticeable.  And that's without taking into account power and thermal compression from the sub and power supply sag in the amp.

swargy 
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Location: United States
Posted: June 25, 2008 at 11:59 PM / IP Logged  
Good point with the 3db increase. I knew that but didn't think about that.   13w7 should be pretty awesome though, especially paired up with the diamond audio hex components.
Also I plan to build a sealed box to JLs specs. The only problem Is I'm not positive id I can get a box that is more than 15" tall and I have to have it be AT LEAST 15" tall since the sub is 13.5" + 2 3/4" MDF pieces.
Also I plan to put a polycarbonate sheet on the back of the box. I already bought the sheet. It is 1/2" thick. Is that enough? If it isn't then I'll just double up the 1/2" sheet since I have enough.
Remember, polycarbonate is NOT plexiglass, it is much much stronger.
I'll let you know how I like the sub when I get it, but I'm pretty sure I won't be disappointed.
Also when I do get it my friend and I just want to mess around and we are going to put my 13w7 in his car along with my 2 old infinity 12.1D subs and then his 2 12w3v3 subs just to see what kind of spl we get.
pbguy 
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Joined: April 27, 2007
Posted: June 26, 2008 at 2:12 PM / IP Logged  
You are worried bout it too much. That amp pushing one 12w7/13w7will be perfect, if you port it I would expect around the same db numbers as your old set up. I have a 500/1 on my 12w7 and its retarded loud and clean.
sedate 
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Posted: June 26, 2008 at 6:10 PM / IP Logged  

swargy wrote:
I might be changing my mind slowly

No No!

Dude - if you want OUTPUT you want CONE AREA.

swargy wrote:
Another reason I was drawn in towards this sub is because I went to see it at a local dealer and the sight of it just sitting on a table just made my mouth drool :)

2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13 - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.

No!  None of that overbuilt, roided-out sub makes NOISE except the CONE.  All that 10 or 11 inches of subwoofer isn't going to do anything for ya except make ur install difficult.  Great, clean sound at excursion is all fine and good - but this is going into a vehicle - that chugs down the road and accepts all sorts of foriegn noise and such - the real differences between these subs (w6 and w7) are minimal at best - forget hearing a difference once this thing is installed into a vehicle meant for public roads. 

swargy wrote:
I had one last question though. Would it be fine to run the 13w7 at 800W?

Kephart wrote:
800 watts would work just fine with the W7.

pbguy wrote:
I have a 500/1 on my 12w7 and its retarded loud

I - uhh - would seriously graph these types of statements in WinISD before you take such un-empirical observations to heart and wallet - you'll find the w7 will lag *significantly* behind the w6's under the power conditions you've laid out.

Furthermore -

swargy wrote:
I currently have 2 Infinity 12.1D subs. I do not want to lose SPL but I want to gain sq. I do know that the w6 have better sq but I'm thinking that the 13w6 isn't any louder than my current subs, but 2 12w6v2 should be louder and have better sq.

pbguy wrote:
if you port it I would expect around the same db numbers as your old set up

I can assure you - I was dumb enough once to replace a pair of Perfects with a 13w6 - you're not going to get much out of this very expensive equipment swap.  If you want to gain SQ - I would start with deadening the entire car - not replacing such quality woofers like a DVC Perfect.

Again - go back to WinISD - you're sacrificing all kinds of output.

swargy wrote:
Also I plan to build a sealed box to JLs specs.

If you want OUTPUT, particularly anything that can compete with 12.1D's - this is a BAD idea.  Build a PORTED box to .5cft larger than the JL recommendations - especially at a paltry 800 watts.

Anyway -

If I HAD to buy subs in ur situation- I think Kephart's own perennial favorite would be highly appropriate here:

http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24_93&products_id=653

"I'm finished!" - Daniel Plainview
swargy 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 17, 2006
Location: United States
Posted: July 13, 2008 at 2:25 PM / IP Logged  
Just an update on this. I finally finished my install. I made a sealed box that is approx 1.9 cu. ft. the front is 1.5" MDF, the sides, top, and bottom are 3/4" MDF, and the back is 1" polycarbonate. the inside is all lined with mirrors.
I have the sub wired in series so it is running at about 800W. It sounds A lot better than my old subs. It seems to blend in a lot better with the speakers, does an amazing job at hitting extremely low notes. I love listening to Carmina Burana, especially when the kick drum hits.
At higher volumes it is extremely loud. I was very amazed.
The only problems I have with it are,
1. At higher volumes it seems to miss some notes, but it isn't a huge problem since I rarely play the sub that loud, and it is a huge improvement over my old setup.
and 2. When it was wired in parallel and was receiving about 1600 Watts it clipped VERY easily. I was a but disappointed with that since I expected the sub to handle that much power with ease.
Overall I believe that the sub was a great purchase.
Steven Kephart 
Platinum - Posts: 1,737
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: November 06, 2003
Location: Oregon, United States
Posted: July 13, 2008 at 6:42 PM / IP Logged  

swargy wrote:
The only problems I have with it are,
1. At higher volumes it seems to miss some notes, but it isn't a huge problem since I rarely play the sub that loud, and it is a huge improvement over my old setup.
and 2. When it was wired in parallel and was receiving about 1600 Watts it clipped VERY easily. I was a but disappointed with that since I expected the sub to handle that much power with ease.
Overall I believe that the sub was a great purchase.

I'm assuming you went with the W7 then?  I'm glad to hear that you are happy with your system now. 

1.  Keep in mind that this is a very low distortion driver.  Non-mechanical speaker based distortion is harmonic in nature so you were probably used to your old speakers producing harmonics of the fundamental frequency that increase with excursion and volume.    So it's not missing notes, it's just not adding it's own notes. 2 jl w6 vs w7 and 12 vs 13 - Page 2 - Last Post -- posted image.

2.  Speakers don't clip.  What you were probably hearing is either your head unit or amplifier clipping.  It can sound very mechanical.  Either that or you are hearing the sub run beyond it's mechanical limits.  Mechanical power handling is a function of the enclosure.  Either way you are pushing your system to it's limits at that point which means you should imediately turn it down before damage occurs.

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