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what would you choose?


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soundnsecurity 
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: June 02, 2009 at 6:15 PM / IP Logged  
soundnsecurity wrote:
they mean you wont HEAR a difference. when it comes to subs and all things being the same, if you double the power going to a sub, you should gain about 3 decibels. a 3 DB change, plus or minus, isn't really audible to the human ear in the bass frequency range.
so the power difference between 600w and 1000w is a little less than double so you wouldn't notice an audible difference which is why you should run it at 4 ohms because its the safest for your sub and amp. your AMP will take a 2 ohm load but i dont think your sub can take 1000w to just 1 coil. also like i said, using just one coil will drop the rms of your sub by a little bit because its only one coil which makes it more likely that you will blow your sub.
does no one read anything i write?
haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: June 02, 2009 at 8:21 PM / IP Logged  
Charles is a driver engineer at Harmon, and I have used his information before. I spoke with him at GREAT lengths about this again tonight, (we've had the discussion before)and we plugged different numbers in... Here's where we ended up:
"I don't know that I'd recommend it, but I can't say there's anything wrong with it." - Charles Sprinkle, Harmon International.
This was one of his closing comments in our conversation, and reasons for this statement follow:
Mathematically, the power dissipation capabilites of the motor structure do not change, however, the mechanical parts (the adhesives, specifically) can still only take just as much heat in close proximity, whether through one voice coil or two. Additionally, the power capacity of a single voice coil will be 1.414 times the "theoretical power capacity" of a single voice coil. In the case of our 1000 watt woofer in this particular thread, "500 watts per voice coil", times 1.414 = 707 watts. A de-rate of just short of 30%. This is the current limitation of the windings, generally.
If you run the coils in series, you will end up with the same output, even at 300 watts, as running one voice coil at 600 watts. The reason for this is the fact that you will be running 600 watts through half the number of amp-turns within the magnetic field, reducing your output by 3dB, which is EXACTLY the same output as running 300 watts through twice the wire within the magnetic field. There is ZERO difference!
While the amplifier runs cooler, with lower distortion, you end up with 1: better efficiency (this means less heat), 2: 3dB of additional headroom, 3: half the distortion, and 4: twice the damping factor. Additionally, you are using ALL the copper (in the voice coil) that you paid for, AND there is simply ZERO chance that you will ever blow your woofer due to clipping! Clip it off, baby, you'll still be perfectly safe! Charles was unable to say that except for running in an RDO (Resistively Damped Operation) as described in the PDF to which I linked, there would be no reason to only run one coil, especially seeing as your outputs will be identical, so, I stand corrected.
So, in conclusion, use both coils, wired in series, and be perfectly happy with your setup.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
soundcontrol 
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Joined: May 18, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 02, 2009 at 9:33 PM / IP Logged  

Well d#mn it so now just to make sure in dumb mans english.

A dvc sub with 600 watts of total power to one voice coil is the same output as 300 watts total power (series or parallel for example) to both?

Because both coils would be working  more efficently (in dumb terms) then the one coil by its self to move the sub?

If that is the case then wow!!!

Awesome knowledge has been dropped like a ton of bricks.  I need a Dew and some advil. what would you choose? - Page 5 -- posted image.

That should be added to the other post as well.

Just do something
haemphyst 
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Posted: June 02, 2009 at 10:18 PM / IP Logged  
In parallel, you will have the same number of turns in the gap, BUT twice the current, oweing to the lower impedance, so you will end up with a 3dB gain over the other scenarios.
Your dual voice coil driven output is ONLY the same as a single voice coil when wired in SERIES!
Dew and Advil... sounds like a cooktail made in heaven!
And, to soundnsecurity, I did read what you read. I just neglected to mention it, and my apologies for the oversight. You are completely correct in your thread, BUT, you are more correct than you know, now that I have added in my additional information! Take it to the bank!
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
soundcontrol 
Member - Posts: 37
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 02, 2009 at 11:41 PM / IP Logged  

Ok, well that is awesome to know.  D#mn awesome!

Dew goes with anything.

Just do something
soundnsecurity 
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Joined: November 10, 2008
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: June 03, 2009 at 9:35 AM / IP Logged  
haemphyst wrote:
In parallel, you will have the same number of turns in the gap, BUT twice the current, oweing to the lower impedance, so you will end up with a 3dB gain over the other scenarios.
Your dual voice coil driven output is ONLY the same as a single voice coil when wired in SERIES!
Dew and Advil... sounds like a cooktail made in heaven!
And, to soundnsecurity, I did read what you read. I just neglected to mention it, and my apologies for the oversight. You are completely correct in your thread, BUT, you are more correct than you know, now that I have added in my additional information! Take it to the bank!
that post wasn't really directed AT you. but indeed now i know a little bit more about why i was right. truthfully i was just doing some basic sub to amp matching the way i was tought to do.
soundcontrol 
Member - Posts: 37
Member spacespace
Joined: May 18, 2009
Location: Arkansas, United States
Posted: June 03, 2009 at 9:41 PM / IP Logged  

Thats what most people do I would imagine. Match up the subs with the right amp or vise versa.

I've been pleasantly surprised sometimes with running subs to amps where you couldn't get maximum power from the amp and it still sounded great. I guess most of us hate to waste that power if we can avoid it.

Just do something
skateit_12 
Member - Posts: 34
Member spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2009
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: June 03, 2009 at 11:20 PM / IP Logged  
I have wired both voice coils in a series like I was recommended to do and I had to turn it down it was so loud. I could care less about not running at full power. I was very surprised when I cranked the tunes, and from what ive taken from the thread it will be easier on my sub and amp when running it like this. I just wanna thank everyone who commented you've all been a great help, I couldn't ask for anything better.
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