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2005 superduty viper 5701


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bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 4:59 PM / IP Logged  

I have pretty much figured out the alarm side (except wether or not I need to do the gem wake-up relay and diode) of Viper 5701. This is going on a 2005 F250 6.0l diesel with factory remote keyless entry. The remote start is the issue (I don't want to fry something by hooking up something that I shouldn't). I just need clarification on where to hook a few wires to. Below is the breakdown I have figured out so far. Does it look right? The blanks.... I am unsure of... That is where the problem lies.

Do I need to install the GEM wakeup relay and diode?

Do I need to put a relay under the dash for the ignition/starter or is the "onboard starter kill relay" part of the viper system or truck system and all I need to do is cut the dark green wire? Do I even need to cut the dark green wire?

á10-PIN CONNECTOR HEAVY GAUGEáTRUCK WIRE COLOR AND LOCATION
PINK(+)IGNITION 1 INPUT/OUTPUT RED / LIGHT GREEN - IGNITION HARNESS
RED / WHITE30A FUSED IGNITION 2/flex relay 87 input NOT USED
ORANGEACCESSORY OUTPUT DARK BLUE/LIGHT GREEN - IGNITION HARNESS
VIOLET(+)STARTER OUTPUT CAR SIDE KILL DK GREEN - CUT SIDE AWAY FROM IGNITION (pin30 onboard starter kill relay)
GREEN(+)STARTER INPUT KEY SIDE KILL DK GREEN - CUT SIDE TOWARDS KEY (pin 87a onboard strtr kill relay)
RED(+)FUSED IGNITION relay INPUT
PINK/WHITE(+)IGNITION2 NOT USED
PINK/BLACKFLEX RELAY INPUT NOT USED
RED / BLACKFUSED ACCESSORY/STARTER relay INPUT
N/CN/C N/C

bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 5:12 PM / IP Logged  

Wow, let me try and correct that. Cut paste from excel did not work out as planned.

10-pin connector (heavy gauge)

Pink : (+)ignition 1 input/output to RED / light green @ ignition harness

RED / White: 30A fused ignition 2 to not used

Orange: Accessory output to dark blue/light green @ ignition harness

Violet: (+)starter output to dark green after cutting it on cut side away from ignition

Green: (+)starter input to dark green after cutting it on cut side towards ignition

Red: (+) fused ignition input to yellow @ ignition harness (?)

Pink/White: (+)ignition 2 to not used

Pink/Black: flex relay input to not used

RED / Black: Fused accessory/starter input to (?)

NC (no connector)

the12volt 
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Administrator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: Marchá07, 2002
Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 5:17 PM / IP Logged  
Give me a minute. I'll fix it.
2005 superduty viper 5701 -- posted image. the12volt Ľ Support the12volt.com
bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 5:21 PM / IP Logged  

Cut paste from word too?????

10pin connector heavy gauge

pink is (+) ignition 1 input/output and connected to RED / light green @ ignition harness

RED / white is (+)30a fused ignition 2/flex relay pin 87 input and is not used

orange is accessory output and connected to dark blue/light green at ignition harness

violet is starter output and is connected to dark green after cutting on the side away from ignition

green is starter input and is connected to the dark green after cutting on the side towards the key

red is 30a fused ignition 1 relay input and not sure where it goes.

pink/white is ignition 2 flex relay output and is not used

pink/black is 87a of ignition 2/flex relay and is not used

RED / black is 30a fused accessory/starter relay input and not sure where it goes

no wire in last slot.

bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 5:52 PM / IP Logged  

That was fast the12volt.  Nice.   Guess I jumped the gun by reposting figuring nobody would attempt to correct it.

Some more background.  This is my first install (obviously).  I have downloaded tons of diagrams and read the DEI installation guide a few times.  I cant seem to find the DirectFax document 1094, which has to do with the VSM (GEM?).  I did find "Ford GEM Wake Up Diagram II" and it shows a relay connected to the door ajar wire and unlock output along with a diode from keyless entry module to unlock wire between relay and unlock wire.  Is this something I need to do?  I have read topics that say yes and no so far.  I am about a week into researching this and still lost (but I gain some knowledge everyday and it becomes more clear.)  Once I fully inderstand, I will install it and take lots of pics so other newbies will have a reference.

soundnsecurity 
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Location: Louisiana, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 7:20 PM / IP Logged  
ok. the RED / black wire needs to be hooked up to a constant 12v source just like the solid red wire. the RED / x wires supply power to the onboard relays each red wire is an input to a relay that powers the other ignition and accessory outputs. you need to give power to the ones that correspond to what you have in your truck.
ex; your truck has 1 ignition, 1 accessory, and 1 starter so you would need to power up the solid red wire and the RED / black wire. if you had a second ignition or accessory in your truck you would need to power up the RED / white wire. does that make it clear?
basically all you are trying to do is simulate what is going on at the ignition harness when you use the key.
as far as i know f250's dont have any factory anti-theft so you shouldn't have to worry about using a bypass.
now, for the GEM wake up. the way you can find out if you need to do this or not is to lock your doors with the factory keypad and leave the window down and wait a few minutes. then try to unlock your truck using the interior door lock button. if it does not unlock then you need to wake the car up.
to do this, they want you to pulse the doorpin to make the truck think that someone opened the door from the inside. to make it work you might have to program the viper alarm to "double pulse" unlock and the manual will tell you how to do that through the valet switch and the keypad.
if the polarity of your factory lock wires is different from your doorpin's polarity then you need to use a relay to change the polarity so you wont fry anything. if you use a relay to do this then you dont need to use a diode to isolate the doorpin from the lock circuit.
bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 8:18 PM / IP Logged  

Alright.  So here is what is in the installation book for each wire and my guess as to where they go and what to do:

1.  Pink, which is (+) ignition 1 input/output - connect this wire to the ignition wire in the vehicle. This wire not only supplies voltage for the ignition line in the vehicle, it is also the ignition feed for the security system.

Pink connects to yellow or RED / light green (constant 12v)

2.  RED / White, not used because it is for 2nd ignition which I don't have.

3.  Orange, which is Accessory output - connect this wire to the accessory wire that powers the climate control system.

Orange connects to dark blue/light green at ignition harness?  Mine has the electronic display and not the knobs.  Does this matter?

Starter input and starter output are next.  Am I supposed to cut the starter wire and place these next wires on each side of the cut?

4.  violet, which is starter output - this wire hooks up to the starter side of the starter wire in the car.  This wire is also pin 30 of the onboard starter kill relay.

I am to cut the starter wire and on the side that does not go to the key attach the violet wire, or do I attach the violet wire and also place it on a relay at pin30?

5.  Green, which is starter input - After cutting the starter wire connect the green wire to the end going to the ignition switch.  This wire is pin 87a of the onboard starter kill relay.

Starter wire has been cut above so the green wire connects to the key side of the starter wire (dark green).  Once again, am I supposed to attach this to a relay as well?

6.  Red, which is 30 amp fused Ignition 1 relay input - This wire is the polarity feed for the Ignition 1 relay.

As mentioned above, I connect this to a 12v constant power (yellow or RED / light green)?

7. pink/white ignition2 flex relay output is not used.

8.  pink/black 87a of ignition 2/flex relay is not used.

9.  RED / black is 30amp fused accessory/starter relay input. - This wire is the polarity feed to the accessory and starter relays.

This one gets connected to 12v constant too?

Am I to use a relay?  For the wires that talk about pin30, 87a  and polarity inputs?

soundnsecurity 
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Posted: Augustá10, 2009 at 11:40 PM / IP Logged  
ok, you are close, the only problem is that i think you are confused when they mention "ignition" wire. the ignition wires as they mean it is a wire that is only on when the key is turned. it should not read 12v when the car is off.
so with that in mind, the answer to question 1 is no. it doesn't go to constant 12 volts. it goes to the wire that only gets 12v when you turn the key. im not sure which wire that is in your truck but with this knowledge you should be able to test the wires and verify that you are connecting the pink wire to the right wire.
also the only difference between an "ignition" wire and an "Accessory" wire is that an ignition wire will stay hot when you are cranking the starter and an accessory wire will loose power during crank and then power back up when you let go of the key.
the reason that this is an important difference is that the actual ignition wires are to power up the trucks onboard computers and other things that make it start and run. so if you mistakenly connect the accessory wire from the remotestarter to a vehicles ignition wire then it will fail to remote start because those wires are meant to be powered all tha way through the start cycle.
for your starter kill issues, you will be cutting the factory starter wire and you will hook the green wire to the side that goes to the key cylinder/ignition and the purple will go to the other side. tip: if you are soldering your connections, you should connect both wires to the starter wire first and then cut in between them after the solder cools off.
yes, your RED / black wire also gets 12v constant. so in total there should be 3 wires in the heavy gauge harness that you wont use and they are RED / white, pink/white, and pink/black. make sure you tape them up so they dont just hand there and possibly short something out.
oh, and here is a big thing that i overlooked. your truck is a diesel so instead of hooking it up to the wait-to-start bulb at the instrument cluster, you should just program the alarm for a short delay before it actually tries to crank the starter. and trust me, if you dont put the delay on and just let it crank normally then you will have some problems down the line. it might work now with no delay but it wont be as faithful when it gets colder.
bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá11, 2009 at 6:10 AM / IP Logged  

Got it.  The RED / light green is the ignition wire (not the yellow, which is constant power).  I guess after reading everything and bouncing it off of the ford factory alarm diagram I downloaded (which helped with identifying some of the wires) and all of your help, I think I understand it enough now to tackle this project.

There is no wait to start wire on my truck, it is all integrated.  I will program the delay start.

I have also heard lots of tach wire issues with the 6.0.  I will try the initial wire identified first to see if that works (the one with all the PTO wires).  I have read numerous things about setting it to voltage sense and on low, connecting to a wire in the engine compartment by the drivers battery, using an amplifier, using the DEI tach thing that goes on the alternator.  So confusing with all the variables.  You installers must really love your jobs.  I have been farting with this thing for about a week now and I haven't hooked up the first wire.

Thanks for all your help.  I'm sure I will be buggin ya'll again

bondsman 
Member - Posts: 18
Member spacespace
Joined: Augustá07, 2009
Location: North Carolina, United States
Posted: Augustá11, 2009 at 7:41 AM / IP Logged  

One more quick question.....

I have 3 different accessory wires on the truck but only one (orange) wire to the remote starter labled as accessory output?  Should I tie all three together and to the orange (doesn't seem too safe to do that)?

Where do i connect them?

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