the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
icon

12s or 15s


Post ReplyPost New Topic
< Prev Topic Next Topic >
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: October 17, 2009 at 12:26 AM / IP Logged  
No apology necessary, it's a perfectly understandable misconception. With any single given, SAME SIZE voice coil and motor structure, simply attached to a larger cone, your physics class would be correct.
When manufacturers build their motors, they address the inductance, to improve the response of the cones.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
blk1990gt 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: October 12, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: October 17, 2009 at 5:13 PM / IP Logged  
so my new question now is will a biger sub be louder?
whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 17, 2009 at 6:01 PM / IP Logged  
blk1990gt wrote:
so my new question now is will a biger sub be louder?
Assuming all else is the same other then the size of the subs, yes. Cone area is directly related to output so the more cone area you have the more output you have.
That does not mean all 15s will be louder then all 12s or even 8s. There a lot of factors that determine overall loudness. But in general, yes, more cone area does mean more output.
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: October 17, 2009 at 7:08 PM / IP Logged  
blk1990gt wrote:
so my new question now is will a biger sub be louder?
NO!!! Absolutely not. It is dependent COMPLETELY upon 1: the efficiency of the driver, and 2: the power handling of and power supplied to the driver.
If you have an 8" woofer and a 15" woofer, both rated 85dB efficient, and the 8" woofer can handle 200 watts, but the 15 can only handle 100 watts, then the 8" driver CAN play twice as loud as the 15" driver.
whiterob wrote:
Assuming all else is the same other then the size of the subs, yes. Cone area is directly related to output so the more cone area you have the more output you have.
That is simply wrong. Cone area has little to nothing to do with how loud a driver is or how loud it can play. It is motor structure that has FAR more to do with a given driver's output capability! By your logic, then there would never be ANY way that a 1" tweeter could EVER make as much noise as a 15" woofer. We all know this is not the case.
The more air you can move, yes, but that IS NOT ANY INDICATION of how loud a driver will play, rather an indication of how DEEP that driver can play.
Nearly ANY tweeter you can lay your hands on today will have every BIT of 8 to 12dB better efficiency than any current, decent, long-throw, high power handling woofer, thus, completely blowing your theory out of the water.
:::::EDIT:::::
I knew I'd find the thread I was looking for... SPL Formula thread.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 12:14 AM / IP Logged  
haemphyst wrote:
blk1990gt wrote:
so my new question now is will a biger sub be louder?
NO!!! Absolutely not. It is dependent COMPLETELY upon 1: the efficiency of the driver, and 2: the power handling of and power supplied to the driver.
If you have an 8" woofer and a 15" woofer, both rated 85dB efficient, and the 8" woofer can handle 200 watts, but the 15 can only handle 100 watts, then the 8" driver CAN play twice as loud as the 15" driver.
whiterob wrote:
Assuming all else is the same other then the size of the subs, yes. Cone area is directly related to output so the more cone area you have the more output you have.
That is simply wrong. Cone area has little to nothing to do with how loud a driver is or how loud it can play. It is motor structure that has FAR more to do with a given driver's output capability! By your logic, then there would never be ANY way that a 1" tweeter could EVER make as much noise as a 15" woofer. We all know this is not the case.
The more air you can move, yes, but that IS NOT ANY INDICATION of how loud a driver will play, rather an indication of how DEEP that driver can play.
Nearly ANY tweeter you can lay your hands on today will have every BIT of 8 to 12dB better efficiency than any current, decent, long-throw, high power handling woofer, thus, completely blowing your theory out of the water.
:::::EDIT:::::
I knew I'd find the thread I was looking for... SPL Formula thread.
I've always heard that every time you double the cone area you will gain 3db. I know that is a theoretical value but doesn't cone area have an effect on output? Same as every time you double the power you gain 3db (again a theoretical value).
I also may not have explained what I was meaning very well. When I said everything being the same I was implying that the subs had the same efficiency, same power handling, and all other specs being the same. I realize that this is not really a practical situation but assuming that this was true and only the cone area of the subs differed the larger sub would be slightly louder correct?
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 12:53 AM / IP Logged  
whiterob wrote:
I've always heard that every time you double the cone area you will gain 3db. I know that is a theoretical value but doesn't cone area have an effect on output? Same as every time you double the power you gain 3db (again a theoretical value).
Yes, you are correct, that a doubling will add 3dB, but if you are starting with one woofer, 12 inches across, (hell... even 8" across...) with an Re of (for example) 87dB (typical today), and another woofer, 15" across, ALSO with an Re of 87dB, then if you double the cone area of either situation by adding a second identical driver, there will still be no difference. Just do the math...
87dB + 3dB = 90dB
That will hold true no matter the driver diameter... Notice it doesn't say "an 8 inch 87dB, plus a second 8 inch 3dB, equals a single 15 inch 90dB". (I know that's ridiculous, but you get the idea, I think...)
whiterob wrote:
I also may not have explained what I was meaning very well. When I said everything being the same I was implying that the subs had the same efficiency, same power handling, and all other specs being the same. I realize that this is not really a practical situation but assuming that this was true and only the cone area of the subs differed the larger sub would be slightly louder correct?
No. Whether it is practical or not, if they have the same efficiency (Re or "reference efficiency) and power handling, a VERY practical and possible situation, then there will be zero difference in output, no matter HOW many doublings of cone area, as long as you double the same number of times for either driver's situation.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
whiterob 
Copper - Posts: 351
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 22, 2007
Location: United States
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 1:58 AM / IP Logged  
haemphyst wrote:
whiterob wrote:
I've always heard that every time you double the cone area you will gain 3db. I know that is a theoretical value but doesn't cone area have an effect on output? Same as every time you double the power you gain 3db (again a theoretical value).
Yes, you are correct, that a doubling will add 3dB, but if you are starting with one woofer, 12 inches across, (hell... even 8" across...) with an Re of (for example) 87dB (typical today), and another woofer, 15" across, ALSO with an Re of 87dB, then if you double the cone area of either situation by adding a second identical driver, there will still be no difference. Just do the math...
87dB + 3dB = 90dB
That will hold true no matter the driver diameter... Notice it doesn't say "an 8 inch 87dB, plus a second 8 inch 3dB, equals a single 15 inch 90dB". (I know that's ridiculous, but you get the idea, I think...)
whiterob wrote:
I also may not have explained what I was meaning very well. When I said everything being the same I was implying that the subs had the same efficiency, same power handling, and all other specs being the same. I realize that this is not really a practical situation but assuming that this was true and only the cone area of the subs differed the larger sub would be slightly louder correct?
No. Whether it is practical or not, if they have the same efficiency (Re or "reference efficiency) and power handling, a VERY practical and possible situation, then there will be zero difference in output, no matter HOW many doublings of cone area, as long as you double the same number of times for either driver's situation.
Lol, I just realized the mistake in my logic.12s or 15s - Page 2 -- posted image.   I don't know what I was thinking but thanks for straightening that up for me.12s or 15s - Page 2 -- posted image.
blk1990gt 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: October 12, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 8:56 PM / IP Logged  
got yet another question for u guys so lets say i were to buy 2 dual 2 oham subs that are 2000w each can i run 4 1000w 2 oham amps 1 to each voice coil?
haemphyst 
Platinum - Posts: 5,054
Platinum spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 9:39 PM / IP Logged  
Yes... (...and the word is Ohm... It's a man's name...)
Are you seriously asking questions to learn, or are you just asking questions to get your post count up?
We don't mind helping, really, but these questions are becoming a bit... ridiculous.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
blk1990gt 
Member - Posts: 9
Member spacespace
Joined: October 12, 2009
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: October 18, 2009 at 10:03 PM / IP Logged  

haemphyst wrote:
Yes... (...and the word is Ohm... It's a man's name...)
Are you seriously asking questions to learn, or are you just asking questions to get your post count up?
We don't mind helping, really, but these questions are becoming a bit... ridiculous.

i dont care about my post count! why would i? i am asking questions 2 learn because i want 2 have a nice setup and do it right i dont know whats so rediculous about thet they are honest questions sorry if i my mis'spelling of a word offended you.. now if someone who is not a jerk would like 2 give me a bit more info about my previous question I.E is this a safe method for every day use and maybe some experience with a simaler combo it would be greatly appreciated if not then no need 2 post in my thread

Thanks,

Justin

Page of 3

  Printable version Printable version Post ReplyPost New Topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot create polls in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

  •  
Search the12volt.com
Follow the12volt.com Follow the12volt.com on Facebook
Sunday, February 25, 2024 • Copyright © 1999-2024 the12volt.com, All Rights Reserved Privacy Policy & Use of Cookies
Disclaimer: *All information on this site ( the12volt.com ) is provided "as is" without any warranty of any kind, either expressed or implied, including but not limited to fitness for a particular use. Any user assumes the entire risk as to the accuracy and use of this information. Please verify all wire colors and diagrams before applying any information.

Secured by Sectigo
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer
Support the12volt.com
Top
the12volt.com spacer
the12volt.com spacer