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bigtime_077 
Member - Posts: 20
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2009
Posted: December 15, 2009 at 6:40 PM / IP Logged  

I hope I am going to answer your original question but I do not believe that you need to use the original grounding spot because the whole engine is going to be "electrically" connected since it is a ferrous metal.  Now maybe I'm wrong but you could connect the ground wire to the engine mount which I believe that on that car with a 3.4L there will be two of them between the motor and radiator near the top of the engine.  Now I believe that the engine mount will be best since it will be connected directly to the engine block which is the largest mass of metal in any auto. 

Hope this will help.

Mr. Big

jizmak55 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 12, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 15, 2009 at 7:01 PM / IP Logged  

thank you im hopin a couple more people say the same thing.  I just wanna be pretty sure before i go doing it. I appreciate your feedback.

Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
tommy... 
Gold - Posts: 1,901
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Joined: December 10, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: December 15, 2009 at 8:04 PM / IP Logged  
Proofreading helps bigtime...! Some just skip over posts that are long run-on sentences...etc...! So anyway it helps...! Are you asking about the ground from the engine to chassis...Some say the alt case is the best ground...I.E.  a alternator bolt etc...You can do this wire and then check its resistance with a DMM...But i dont think you are going to hurt anything...Just might have to find another location...There is a good sticky on grounds and using a DMM...This might assist you also with the grounds for your amp...And tell you what the voltage is dropping to and where...I guess...Lets go ahead and get a meter and do some testing...ey...?
M.E.C.P & First-Class
Go slow and drink lots of water...Procrastinators' Unite...Tomorrow!
jizmak55 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 12, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 15, 2009 at 8:18 PM / IP Logged  

The big three consists of= positive battery terminal to alternator. Negative battery terminal to chasis. And negative battery terminal to engine correct? im talking about the last one negative battery terminal to engine. I cant get to where the factory cable connects to the engine from the negative terminal.  would it be ok to hook that wire from the negative terminal to another bolt on the engine or does it have to go were the factory wire is hooked to the engine because the bolt its hooked to dosnt look special just looks like a random bolt. thank you

Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:43 AM / IP Logged  
No - the additional cables can go anywhere.
Or rather - they do NOT have to be where the standard cables are. (That was one thing I liked with one Big3 upgrade description - do not change, just ADD - hence in principle NOT impacting any vehicle warranty etc.)
I've seen cables from gearbox bolts to gearbox crossmember chassis or other chassis bolts; cables bridging rubber engine mounts, etc.
The more the merrier. (Assuming you do not believe in ground-loops in cars etc. Although that's been on my "to-do" list for decades, I have difficulty envisaging earth/ground loops in most vehicles.)
And there is one warning - do not assume metal to metal conducts. Maybe the gearbox does not have a strong electrical bond to the engine. I know that's had to believe, but I have heard.... (and no - it wasn't "off the net"!)
I had an over-voltage problem with my older "externally regulated" alternator. It turned out that my "solid" battery and chassis terminals with their highly torqued 14mm (9/16") threaded bolt to the engine block had gone high resistance and was dropping up to 2 Volts!
I now have the battery- go to a starter motor mounting bolt (since that is my biggest load & I have no big audio system). And there is a separate engine to body cable somewhere (maybe the other starter bolt?).
Audio systems are interesting ito design. At least you have a decent alternator! (I'm a bit tired of people suggesting bigger batteries to makeup for undersized alternators - especially when the amps do NOT use SMPS systems (DC-DC converters), or when they suggest AGMs (in the engine bay etc)!)
In your case you really want the best cabling from the alternator to the amps. (The battery isn't that important.)
And although I have always reckoned chassis/body grounding is more than enough, someone has just posted differently so I am currently (no pun) querying (no pun).
But we can tackle that later if needed.
I have also recently posted herein about minimising fusing for "over-rated" cable runs... I'll try to locate if you don't find them.
DYohn 
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Moderator spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Electrical Theory. Click here for more info.spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Audio and Video. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 10:42 AM / IP Logged  
jizmak55 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 12, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:19 PM / IP Logged  
thank you guys i love this site your alot of help
Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
jizmak55 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 12, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 4:23 PM / IP Logged  

I ended up running from my battery negative to my alternator mount bolt.  Lights are still dimmin though idk i guess im gonna have to give in and go to a pro.  I had my car idlein and i was playin some pretty heavy bass notes my cap says i was droppin the whole way down to 10v on long ones.  i could try one more thing since everyone says the alternator is absolute ground would it be crazy to run my ground from my amps through my car to an alternator mounting bolt?????

Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
oldspark 
Gold - Posts: 4,913
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Joined: November 03, 2008
Location: Australia
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 5:48 PM / IP Logged  
As I said above, I reckon a dedicated ground cable from alt (or batts) to the amps should not be necessary. However this assumes all inter-connections and cables are sound (no pun).
IE - amp-cable-terminal-panel/bolt-nextPanel-maybeChassis-bolt/panel-terminal-cable-alternatorCase or (panel)-block-altBracket-altCase, and Batt(-) to body or Batt(-) to block etc.   
It just needs a hi-impedance connection at any of the above junctions to cause voltage drops. Even cable to terminal joins,
However, the fact that your lights are dimming means that there is a voltage dip (d'oh!) and - if there is no common supply path between the lights & the amps - that means your alternator is not keeping up. Nor probably your battery....
"Common supply path" means (f.ex, say) a cable from the alternator that then splits to the amps and the lights.
The alternator may be supplying 14.4V, but the sub-thump causes a bigger voltage drop across the common cable, hence the lights dip too.
Though most times the common supply path is not in the hot feed (+12V), it can be in the ground circuits.
Hence why ground circuits are often "over done" to ensure their voltage drops are far less than the hot wiring.
Before I continue (Dog help us all!), can you mount a battery near your amps?
Ideally you would move your AGM (yellow top) next to your amps and have VERY heavy wiring from yellow-top + & - to the amps(s).
You would then have a "normal" battery in the engine bay (since the yellow-top there is useless from an audio point of view).
Else you could rewire from the near-amp-mounted battery to the starter motor and alternator using the existing audio wiring, but a separate engine battery is better. (What's another $100 compared to the rest? Plus you can have independent batteries to ensure cranking.)
jizmak55 
Member - Posts: 28
Member spacespace
Joined: December 12, 2009
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: December 16, 2009 at 9:17 PM / IP Logged  

I do have another battery if i put the yellow top in the trunk how would i charge it?  How would the big three even work then?  would my big three still be running to the cranking battery?

Db electrical 200a alt
0awg wiring kit
Yellow top optima
2 pioneer premier TS30004DVC subs
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