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problems with audiovox prestige aps 785


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Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: March 22, 2010 at 8:23 PM / IP Logged  
Wow, cool, thanks for the compliment!
Since it's an Audiovox remote starter, the bypass module is likely (but not necessarily) an Audiovox AS-TCBM. Another popular choice at the time your car was made would have been a 555U by DEI (Directed Electronics).
Anyway, regardless of brand, it's a black box a little bit bigger than a pack of cigarettes. It has a couple of wires going to it, there's a spare key (probably your valet key) inside, and then a "ring" that goes around the keyhole on the car's ignition switch.
The remote starter turns on the bypass module's internal relay, which then connects the ring that's around the keyhole, to another ring (inside the box) that's around the head of the key. The car "sees" a valid key, and then can be remote started.
I couldn't find an install guide online for the ASTCBM. Here's a guide for the newer DEI 556U. (Note that the 556U has a lot of wires that can be connected in various ways; ignore that part for the time being.)
LINK:
http://www.directedstore.com/manuals/556UW.pdf
There are really only four basic possible installation errors: The ring around the keyhole is out of position, the key is out of position inside the box, the box isn't being activated by the remote starter, or the key inside is bad and/or unprogrammed to the car.
My experience is that it's easier for a novice to take down the driver's underdash panel, than it is to take the shroud off the steering wheel. The clips on the shroud are easily broken. With that in mind, I'll start my troubleshooting instructions where I think it'll be easiest for you. If you think removing the shroud is easier than the underdash, you could switch some of these steps around:
1. Obtain access to the black box under the driver's dash where the key is inside. Put your hands on it, and activate the remote starter. You should hear/feel its internal relay click on immediately. If you cancel the remote start (tap the brake), the box should click off after a few seconds.
If it doesn't click, it could be defective, or might not be wired to the remote starter correctly. Post back with results.
2. The box has four screws. Unscrew them, take the box apart, and find the key inside. You'll clearly see where the head of the key sits under a coil of wire. (Look at Page 3 of the link I posted above.)
Take the key out, put it in the ignition, and try the remote start. If the car starts, you know your key is good. If it doesn't, get the key reprogrammed or replaced.
3. My experience is that the letter H from the valet key MUST be positioned right under the coil of wire. The ASTCBM isn't large enough for the oversized Honda key; you may have to break open its casing, and secure the now-protruding key with tape.
Anyway, just plug the thing in (you don't even need the casing), hold the key in that position, and try the remote starter again.
If it works in that position, that was the problem. Secure it permanently in that position somehow.
4. If it's not that, it's the ring that's fallen out of position on the front of the key cylinder. The shroud around the column has three screws on the bottom, and then the sides and behind the steering wheel are easily-broken clips. Maybe a couple are already broken from the original install! Even if you break them all, I think the whole shroud is less than $20 at the dealer. (TIP: Have the car warm inside; cold plastic panels are brittle.)
Anyway, look at Page 4 of that 556U install guide. The drawing does a better explanation than I can in text, but you'll see that the position of the ring is important, especially so on Honda and Toyota. It has to be nice and tight right there around the keyhole.
Put it where you think is good, temporarily, and try the remote start. If it works, use tape or a zip tie to secure it, then put the column back together.
cezaryt 
Member - Posts: 23
Member spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2010
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: March 24, 2010 at 11:37 AM / IP Logged  

Chris, thank you once again for your help. I did what you advised, but still the remote starter is not working. Here’s what I did. Since I’ve been driving without those underdash panels since January, yesterday I started looking for the black box first. And I found one. It was buried under all the cables, out of reach. I tried the “click” thing you wrote about in point 1. It was clicking. Ok, I thought, I’ve got a black box, a little bit bigger than a pack of cigarettes, with four screws, with bunch of cables… It must be it. Once I’ve unscrewed the third screw, and picked inside, I’ve found a bunch of circuits, and no key… I guessed it must be the wrong box (the main unit probably)…. I’ve decided to attack the shroud around the column. While working on it, I’ve noticed a little bit of electric tape sticking out from the ignition opening. Once I’ve manager to dismount the shroud (I’m glad my wife didn’t see it), I found three coils of red (or red-black) wire wrapped around the front of the key cylinder, under the electric tape. Is it that ring you’ve mention in point 4?

I’ve followed the wire, and found a thick object with a lot of electric tape on it, with something that resembled a tip of a car key. I carefully unwrapped it – there was my valet key with the same red (or red-black) wire around it (three or four coils) taped to a small black box (with the following description on it: BOSCH 12V 20/30A, 0332209150) with five connectors, and two red wires, one orange, and one blue connected to it. I believe it’s my bypass module… I took out the valet key, put it in the ignition in the off position, tried remote start, and it worked (so the key is good). I brought some electric tape from home and started putting everything together. I taped the three coils of red wire around the front of the key cylinder (the same way it was). I positioned three coils from the other end of that red wire exactly around the letter H on my valet key. I tried remote star, but it didn’t work (the green key light on the panel was flashing this time). Is it the red wire is at fault? What does it do? Are three coils on the key cylinder and three around the letter H on the valet key enough?

howie ll 
Pot Metal - Posts: 16,466
Pot Metal spacespace
Joined: January 09, 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: March 24, 2010 at 11:52 AM / IP Logged  
It's a home made by-pass, obtain a 556U or the Audiovox by-pass mentioned by Chris.
lectricguy 
Copper - Posts: 359
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2008
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: March 24, 2010 at 1:12 PM / IP Logged  

Cezaryt-

This is a link to the application http://documents.audiovox.com/700665.pdf.

The home made bypass uses a relay, the coil is powered by ignition (Blue) wire and triggered by the ground while running signal (Ignition 3 relay control output, light blue on the 18 pin connector of the 785).   This activates the relay when the RS is activated, and provides coupling from the key to the car key cylinder.

You may want to ensure that your relay is clicking on when you try to remote start.  If not, I would look at the power and ground connections to the relay (pins 85 & 86).   If the relay is clicking on, I would look carefully at the connection (continuity) of the rely when on (between pins 87 & 30), as well as the intergrity of the connection to the relay for the wire loop.

Howie is correct, a commercial bypass will be a better bet for long term reliability, but you may be able to get your currect set up working in the interim.

Lectric Guy
cezaryt 
Member - Posts: 23
Member spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2010
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: March 26, 2010 at 10:46 AM / IP Logged  
First of all – thank you ALL for your advices. I didn’t have time on Wednesday to try them, so once I got back from work on Thursday, I stayed in my car, because I was eager to finally find the problem and hopefully solve it. I reached behind the shroud on my car’s steering column with my left hand (I put my left hand on the relay to check if it clicks), and with the transmitter in my right hand I pushed the channel 3 button to remote start the engine. The relay clicked, the engine cranked once, cranked twice… and started! I couldn’t believe it! Well, I thought, maybe I waved my right hand with the transmitter too close to the ignition. I stopped the engine, extended my arm with the transmitter toward the back seat, and tried again. Now the third crank started the engine. I stopped it, got out of the car, tried it again – it started at the first time. I stopped it, tried it again – no luck. Again – no luck. Again – the second crank started the engine. I tried it one more time, after couple hours – it didn’t work at the first try, but the third crank at the second try started the engine. I tried it two times this morning when the engine was cold (I thought maybe it worked yesterday, because the engine was at its normal operating temperature, but the whole purpose of having the remote start is to warm up the engine, right?) – it didn’t work. I tried it after I’ve got to work (the engine was not cold anymore) – it didn’t work either. What is wrong with it? Have you ever heard about something like that?
lectricguy 
Copper - Posts: 359
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2008
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: March 26, 2010 at 3:40 PM / IP Logged  

Cezaryt-

I'll try to help...

From what you are describing, it sounds like you are still having problems with the transponder.  To check this, you can insert a key in the ignition, leave it in the off position, fully inserted.   Now try to remote start the car.  It should start on first attempt.  

If the car starts with the key inserted:

I would look carefully at the relay/keywrap wire...Are all the wires making good connection to the relay?  Can you spot any break in the wire?   Does the relay close (click) every attempt to remote start?

If the wires/connections are good,  and the relay is enabled on every attempt, I would look at the key and cylinder wrapping again, making sure that they are tight, and on the correct positions of the key and close to the factory transponder wire loop on the key cylinder.

If this does not correct the issue, the commercially available (i.e., not home made) 555U mentioned by Howie II and the Audiovox  AS-TCBM mentioned by Chris would solve this problem.

If the vehicle does not start with the key in the ignition:

Try the remote start diagnostics mode.  This is feature 7 in the remote start menu of the APS785.

The diagnostic mode is a temporary mode. Once you have turned on the diagnostic mode, the unit will pause for two seconds then begin to flash the parking lights a number of times indicating the reason for the last remote start shutdown.  This would help you identify the issue if the car does not start with the key in the ignition as outlined above.

Lectric Guy
cezaryt 
Member - Posts: 23
Member spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2010
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 07, 2010 at 12:44 PM / IP Logged  
Here is an update: the relay is clicking. I’ve checked the connections to the relay (pins 85 & 86), and they look ok. The continuity between pins 87 & 30 is ok as well (I took a new wire and wrapped it around the key and the key cylinder as was on the drawing). What really puzzles me is that sometimes the remote start works (with either new or old wire), but most of the time it doesn’t. Why is that? Why doesn’t it work all the time or why doesn’t it work at all? It looks like I have a car with an attitude to play jokes on me... I’ll get that by-pass module – maybe this will help.
cezaryt 
Member - Posts: 23
Member spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2010
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 21, 2010 at 4:15 PM / IP Logged  
I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I’ve bought a transmitter (slightly used, but that’s ok – I’ve switched the electronics inside), reprogrammed it and it works. The bad news is that I’m still having problems with the remote start. Here’s what I did. I’ve bought a new bypass box (556U by DEI). I’ve disconnected the home made bypass, which left me with two wires coming from under the steering column – blue (which was connected to terminal 85 on the relay) and orange (which was connected to terminal 86 on the relay). From the drawing which was posted earlier I concluded that the blue wire is (+) ignition output, and the orange one is status output (-). So I’ve connected the blue wire to a red wire of the 6-pin harness, and the orange wire with a blue wire of the 6-pin harness. Is it how I was supposed to do it? I’ve also taped the ring around the ignition. The ring is pretty big, and I couldn’t make the whole ring to fit snuggly. Should I somehow cut it and make a smaller ring? Would that help? Or a bigger ring creates better “field”? I’ve also put the key inside the box, and connected the 6-pin harness and the 3-pin harness to it. I tried the remote start couple times, but it didn’t work. What did I do wrong? Is it the connection with the 6-pin harness or the ring on the ignition? Please, help me.
lectricguy 
Copper - Posts: 359
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 18, 2008
Location: Rhode Island, United States
Posted: April 21, 2010 at 5:10 PM / IP Logged  

Cezaryt-

Did you also connect the black (Ground) of the 556U to vehicle ground? 

If so, the ring should be as close as practically possible to the vehicle's transponder ring. 

If you've done this already and the ground is connected, place a key in the ignition in the off position, and try to remote start the vehicle, as mentioned in previous replies.  With the key in the ignition, does the car consistantly remote start?   This will help determine if another issue exists, or if the problem is with the transponder.

Lectric Guy
cezaryt 
Member - Posts: 23
Member spacespace
Joined: January 04, 2010
Location: Illinois, United States
Posted: April 21, 2010 at 11:17 PM / IP Logged  

Lectric Guy -

Thank you for your patience.

No, I haven't connected the black wire to vehicle ground. How do I do it? (now you know that I'm a total novice) Is it ok if the black wire touches any metal part of vehicle's body? Is that what you mean?

Regarding the ring - its diameter is bigger then the ignition diameter, so only half of the ring goes around the keyhole on the car's ignition switch. Is that good enough?

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