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good 4 awg wire brand?


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mcintosh-asylum 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 11:45 AM / IP Logged  
its only 4000 total and its a no wall with one extra battery and i know solid wire exists but you cant say that 7 strands carries as much current as a solid bar will
4 soundstream xxx 15's :)
150.6 with 4000 watts
oldspark 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 12:32 PM / IP Logged  
Agreed - there is an electrical difference between solid and stranded of the same gauge.
haemphyst 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 12:55 PM / IP Logged  
mcintosh-asylum wrote:
...and i know solid wire exists but you cant say that 7 strands carries as much current as a solid bar will
Yes. I can. And I did. If it is the same gauge wire, it will, and it does.
oldspark wrote:
Agreed - there is an electrical difference between solid and stranded of the same gauge.
There is NO electrical difference, at DC. It is the same number of circular mils. It is the same DC resistance for a given length. At high frequencies, a stranded wire (especially an "individually varnished strands" wire i.e. "Litz" wire) is far better than a solid wire. At DC and up to a few hundred cycles. there is no measurable difference; in a lab, with exceptionally high resolution equipment, possibly. To everyday applications, and MOST ESPECIALLY IN DC EVERYDAY APPLICATIONS, (the car environment) there is zero difference - electrically.
Bare stranded wire can carry MARGINALLY more current safely, due to the additional surface area, thus better cooling, but it is a marginal AT BEST difference. With insulated wire there is so little difference as to be not a factor.
alp8040 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 3:39 PM / IP Logged  
Well thanks guys, but I ended up with some great Xscorpion 1666 stranded 4AWG wire. It is nice and flexible for all my grounds and power hookup between my 140A alternator and battery post.
Now I'm just trying to figure out the best way to cut and crimp 4awg terminals to 4awg wire. I don't like the hammer method or vise method or even the screwdriver and hammer method.
Now I'm just in the process of finding a car audio shop that will let me use their heavy duty thick gauge crimpers instead of spending a lot of money for something I'll only occasionally use.
oldspark 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 6:16 PM / IP Logged  
oldspark wrote:
Agreed - there is an electrical difference between solid and stranded of the same gauge.
haemphyst wrote:
Bare stranded wire can carry MARGINALLY more current safely, due to the additional surface area, thus better cooling, but it is a marginal AT BEST difference.
Agreed - a difference.
I see it more as a resistance difference, keeping in mind that that is how I calculate the gauge I will use (I don't use gauge-current tables).
mcintosh-asylum 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 7:49 PM / IP Logged  
god people listen a wire with 2000 strands will carry more current than a wire with 1000 strands am i wrong?
4 soundstream xxx 15's :)
150.6 with 4000 watts
haemphyst 
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Posted: November 22, 2010 at 9:39 PM / IP Logged  
Yes. You are wrong. As I stated before, a copper 4 gauge conductor is a 4 gauge copper conductor, and the strand count will make absolutely no difference in the amount of current it can carry.
Now... If you have a cable, that for example contains one-thousand 45-gauge wires and you have another cable that contains two-thousand 45-gauge wires, of COURSE the cable with two-thousand wires will carry more current, but it's going to be a larger total AWG number.
I keep harping on this, and you are OBVIOUSLY missing the pitch, AWG numbers are a fixed circular mil number.
Let's take your 1000 strand versus 2000 strand example. We'll still end up at 4AWG.
4AWG = 41,740CM
41,740CM / 1000 = 41.74CM per strand = approximately 34 gauge
41,740CM / 2000 = 20.87CM per strand = approximately 36 gauge
The individual strands are smaller, to get 2000 of them INTO a 4AWG space. It's still 4AWG. It's still 41,740CM. It's still the same DCR. The additional volume of the wire is the additional space. More strands have more space around them - interstitial space - so the bundle will fill more volume.
You are wrong if you think that simply adding strands BUT STILL ENDING UP AT THE SAME WIRE GAUGE, allows that wire to carry more current. The individual strands have to get smaller to get more of them into the same 4G. The number of strands does NOTHING to improve or enhance the current capacity of the wire, as long as we are considering the SAME FINAL WIRE GAUGE. It's for flexibility ONLY. Oh, and for the capacitor crowd... Those are the guys that believe that a cap fixes electrical shortcomings because Kicker (or Rockford, or "insert manufacturer here") SAYS it does.
It's advertising and it's pretty. Two-thousand strands MUST be better than one-thousand strands, right? You are EXACTLY the guy the advertisers hope will read their drivel. Dude. No difference. 4G is 4G is 4G.
mcintosh-asylum 
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Location: Indiana, United States
Posted: November 23, 2010 at 7:00 AM / IP Logged  
yes but most have different strand count it will be a 4 awg casing but with a larger amout of strands.
4 soundstream xxx 15's :)
150.6 with 4000 watts
haemphyst 
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Posted: November 23, 2010 at 9:55 AM / IP Logged  
I never disagreed with that. What I disagreed with was YOUR belief that a copper 2000 strand, true 4AWG wire will carry more current safely than a copper 1000 strand, true 4AWG cable, when nothing could be further from the truth. (Notice I said "true 4AWG", and not "labeled 4AWG") There are some manufacturers out there that will give you "more for your money", i.e. a slightly larger bundle of wires (maybe around a 3AWG) called "4AWG", and there are also unscrupulous manufacturers that will short you by giving you less than you paid for, possibly by labeling something like a "5AWG" as "4AWG".
But as I said and will continue to say, a copper 4AWG is a copper 4AWG is a copper 4AWG cable, and they will carry the same amount of current, regardless of the strand count, and yes, I mean everywhere from a solid bar to your 2000 strand cable. They're the same.
91stt 
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Posted: November 23, 2010 at 10:43 AM / IP Logged  
Strand count does not matter.
AWG is directly related to circular mil and circular mil is the cross section area of the conductor.
Stranded wire LOOKS like it has a larger cross sectional area because it contains alot of wasted space that does little in regards to conductance.
The sum of the cross sectional area of each strand will equal the cross sectional area of a solid wire of the same gauge.
This information is provided only as a reference.
All circuits should be verified with a digital multi-meter prior to making any connections.
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