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2009 mitsubishi lancer, viper 5501, dball


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Chris Luongo 
Platinum - Posts: 3,746
Platinum spaceThis member consistently provides reliable informationspace
Joined: May 21, 2002
Location: Massachusetts, United States
Posted: December 09, 2011 at 7:38 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote Chris Luongo
I have a troubleshooting idea for you......but PLEASE BE CAREFUL DOING THIS!
I would start by programming the unit for automatic transmission mode. You have to be really, really, careful though. You need to wait and think before you try anything. Check that the car is in neutral, parking brake on, and so forth. I would ONLY try the remote starter while seated in the driver's seat, so you can control it if it should suddenly move for whatever reason.
But anyway, put it in automatic mode and see if it will work. That way, you can troubleshoot your installation basics first---brake, hoodpin, toggle safety switch, and all that. You might have made a simple mistake in your installation that you just haven't caught yet.
Also, you know how to use the emergency key when the battery inside the FAST key fails, right?
OK, so suppose you put the Viper in automatic mode and it still doesn't work.
Next, put one FAST key far away from the car. Take the battery out of the other FAST key, and hold the gray square transponder part inside, close to the car's keyhole. Unplug your DBALL. Now try to remote start the car and see if it works.
The idea is to whittle the system down to its basics.....you can temporarily eliminate the manual-transmission stuff, and even temporarily eliminate the bypass module....... just try to get the remote starter itself to function. Then work your way back "up" adding one safety feature at a time until it fails....this way you know where to start troubleshooting.
P.S. You mentioned the plug-in toggle switch. It needs to be plugged in, and the switch moved to "On." If not, the remote starter portion won't work at all.
P.P.S. What are you using to make your diagrams? I really like them. I have a diagram I want to make, and I've downloaded TinyCAD (it's free) and I'm playing around with it a little bit.
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: December 09, 2011 at 10:06 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
Thanks Chris (AND EVERYONE ELSE) for all the ideas. I did finally get it to work last night! I ended up having to hard-wire the Viper's tach input to a fuel injector signal and the Viper's Neutral Safety Switch input to the wired Parking Brake output on the DBALL. Everything else (including regular brake signal) seems to be coming through the D2D interface fine.
Note that I tried to get the Viper to learn the hard-wired tach output signal from the DBALL but it just didn't work. I didn't have an oscilloscope with me to see whether there was even anything coming out on that line.
It still baffles me that all of these signals can't be sent through the D2D interface. Especially when they advertise that they can be. I'm very disappointed in the documentation for all of this. It's been a good learning experience though. I'm sure my next one will go much smoother.
Next, I'm going to attempt to hook up the heated seats to one of the aux outputs (for those days that I forget to leave the switch turned on). When I get it all working, I'll post a new diagram of my final wiring connections.
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: December 09, 2011 at 10:14 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
Chris Luongo wrote:
Also, you know how to use the emergency key when the battery inside the FAST key fails, right?
You bet I do.
Chris Luongo wrote:
P.S. You mentioned the plug-in toggle switch. It needs to be plugged in, and the switch moved to "On." If not, the remote starter portion won't work at all.
Ya I figured that one out too. Good to know.
Chris Luongo wrote:
P.P.S. What are you using to make your diagrams? I really like them. I have a diagram I want to make, and I've downloaded TinyCAD (it's free) and I'm playing around with it a little bit.
I made the diagrams using a (rediculously expensive) circuit board design package called "Altium Designer" that we use at work. I'm an Electrical Engineer and I use it every day.
I've never played with TinyCAD myself but I think it has the capability to make the same kind of schematic diagrams.
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: December 13, 2011 at 9:14 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
Looks like I spoke too soon...
The remote starter will start the car fine and keep it running. The problem is when I try to do a Key Takeover, the thing shuts off as soon as I touch the F.A.S.T. key knob. I've tried it over and over to see if I am doing something wrong but I always get the same result.
The way the F.A.S.T. key is designed to work is: as soon as you slightly push on the knob, the vehicle checks if you have the Mitsubishi key fob somewhere inside the car. If so, then it unlocks the knob and allows you to turn it.
Viper Manual wrote:
To perform Key Takeover:
1. Unlock the system and enter the vehicle, do not step on the foot
brake.
2. Insert the key, turn it to the run position, and then step on the foot brake, the remote start then turns off.
3. The parking lights turn off to indicate remote start is off, and then after a few seconds the remote plays the remote start off mes-
sage. The vehicle is ready to drive.
I am definitely doing the steps as required. Does anyone (Chris Luongo) have experience with remote start in a F.A.S.T. key car? Anything else I can try?
tedmond 
Gold - Posts: 4,610
Gold spaceThis member has been recognized as an authority in Mobile Security and Convenience. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: January 06, 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posted: December 14, 2011 at 12:20 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote tedmond
did you bypass the tumbler key sense?
just did one today with an EVO-CAN and it worked out very well.
Ted
2nd Year Tier 1 Medical School
Still installing as a hobby...pays for groceries
Compustar Expert
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: December 14, 2011 at 12:34 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
tedmond wrote:
did you bypass the tumbler key sense?
Tedmond, I want to make sure I know exactly what you mean. I did cut the green tumbler sense wire and connect each end to the DBALL exactly as shown on page 3 of the DBALL Mitsubishi Instructions
Is there something else that I missed that you are referring to?
I did find something from Fortin that says their EVO-ALL will do this key takeover properly for a FastKey:
"Automatic remote-start take-over when FastKey is detected in proximity. Turn button unlocks automatically. No shutdown required for key take-over."
I would have thought that the DBALL could do the same but maybe I am wrong?
Satkunas 
Copper - Posts: 97
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Joined: April 04, 2005
Location: Canada
Posted: December 14, 2011 at 3:30 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote Satkunas
theppl wrote:
I would have thought that the DBALL could do the same but maybe I am wrong?
The DB-ALL is not the same as the EVO-ALL.
The EVO-ALL supports many more vehicles than the DB-ALL and usually requires fewer connections or additional relays and diodes.
Here's the installation guide with the EVO for comparison:
https://ifar.ca/download/3503/preview.html
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: December 14, 2011 at 4:51 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
I wish I would have known that before I shelled out the cash for the DB-ALLs (one for each of my vehicles).
I just got off the phone with DEI technical support. They say that there is no way to do a key takeover on this vehicle. The best option is to tie the door open signal into the hood pin switch. That way, the car shuts down as soon as you open the door. Then when you get inside, you have to start it up again.
BOTTOM LINE: DO NOT BUY A DB-ALL BYPASS FOR ANY MITSUBISHI VEHICLE WITH A FAST KEY SYSTEM!
In the Mitsubishi section on the Fortin site:
https://ifar.ca/newsletters/20101013.html it says "No shutdown required for key take-over." I haven't decided if I am going to shell out another $75 for that feature.
I'll let you know if it goes any better on the Nissan.
Thanks again for the help everyone.
rob_quads 
Member - Posts: 3
Member spacespace
Joined: February 08, 2012
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: February 08, 2012 at 11:44 AM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote rob_quads
theppl wrote:
In the Mitsubishi section on the Fortin site:
https://ifar.ca/newsletters/20101013.html it says "No shutdown required for key take-over." I haven't decided if I am going to shell out another $75 for that feature.
I'll let you know if it goes any better on the Nissan.
Thanks again for the help everyone.
Just to follow up on this as I am looking at fitting one of these. The Fortin unit does NOT perform key-takeover either. I contacted them and they have said the website is incorrect (their PDF installation instructions do state it does not perform Key Takeover
i.e. currently there is no way of doing Key-Takeover on the Mitsubishi OutlanderSport/RVR/ASX Smart-Key
theppl 
Member - Posts: 17
Member spacespace
Joined: December 01, 2011
Location: Canada
Posted: February 08, 2012 at 2:18 PM / IP Logged Link to Post Post Reply Quote theppl
rob_quads wrote:
Just to follow up on this as I am looking at fitting one of these. The Fortin unit does NOT perform key-takeover either. I contacted them and they have said the website is incorrect (their PDF installation instructions do state it does not perform Key Takeover
i.e. currently there is no way of doing Key-Takeover on the Mitsubishi OutlanderSport/RVR/ASX Smart-Key
That is strange. I would have to disagree. I DID end up getting a Fortin EVO-CAN and got rid of the DBALL. The EVO-CAN definitely works much better. No special programming that is specific to models of vehicles. It just figures it out by itself.
More importantly though, the EVO-CAN does perform the key-takeover properly on my FAST Key Mitsubishi.
When I get into the car, as soon as I touch the knob on the steering column, it turns off the radio and accessories but the engine stays running. Then, I turn the knob and everything turns on again.
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