Add-on remote start to existing alarm problems

wow, thanks for the heads-up omega.  I was checkin' out that rs-6.  What's gettin' me is that it

I have yet to get to Pep Boys to check out the DesignTech ones.  They probably won't be that

Thanks again!

Hey, I went to the PepBoys by me.  The only had 2 remote starters...an Audiovox rs/alarm and a DesignTech 2600.  They said they could order the 20022 for $150.00!  Yikes.

Anyway, since you said you had it, I have a couple of questions.  I downloaded the manual,

1.  Where did you get yours, from the DT's site?

2.  I don't see anything about parking light confirmation....like your lights would stay

3.  The manual says you may need relays for different applications, and then it talks about

4.  For the SensorLoopIn and SensorLoopOut wires, I actually have to cut the wire

Cool.  I really like this system so far.  Just have to figure out what I'd do with the Bulldog

Thanks!

Okay here goes :)

1.  Believe it or not I got my 20022 for less than $15 US total, shipped.  It was the "older" model (I'll explain the minor differences in a minute) and it had no wiring harnesses.  Just the module, instruction manual, box and decals.  I won an eBay auction for it about a year or so ago and it ended at about $5-$7 or something.  Plus shipping I'd say maybe $12US or so.  Then I just used plug in spade crimps and all black wire on the remote starter connections and *luckily* I found this computer harness thing sitting around in an electronics junk store and it was the correct molex configuration.  So I paid a few bucks for that and I was off to the races :)

2.  About the parking light confirmation...  There are IGN1 IGN2 and ACC outputs on the module which are all relayed.  If you only need to use two of the three (a lot of cars need only IGN1&2 to run the car and the heater, but NOT the stereo) then you can use ACC to run the parking lights while the unit is on.  If you need to use all three (if your car needs that many wires to run or you want to run the stereo with the remote start) you need to simply wire two relays up to the ACC circuit and run the parking lights off one and the ACC wire off the other.  So it might require relays but not hard to do at all.

3. The "alarm control" wire that connects to the ignition input on the host alarm needs no relay (on the newer model.  They stopped making the older model A LONG time ago so you won't have to worry about getting the "new" one.)  The way you would hook this to the alarm would be to hook this wire directly to the alarm's ign input wire without any other connections.

I can't view the picture of your diagrams because the link just pops up something that says I'm not allowed to view the image :(  I'm not sure why the wire is connected to the starter kill unless the wire you have going to the starter kill is the "anti-grind" wire.  However I'm not sure how an anti-grind would work from the IGN1 wire you have it connected to currently--it would need to be connected to a ground when running wire.  Again on this issue of the starter kill I'm not sure because I can't see your diagram.  In any case an anti-grind isn't really needed for it to work properly.

4.  For the sensor loop wires, you can just use it as an IN and OUT really.  You should be able to interrupt the ground wire to the sensor this way.  Cut the black wire on the sensor and connect the "alarm side" to one of these and connect the "sensor side" to the other.   Alternatively you could cut the detection wire and connect either side to one each end of the loop but that won't work on 2-stage sensors as you can only bypass one stage that way.  So the answer is to just cut power to the sensor altogether so it will only get power when the R/S is off.

Now for the "differences" in the old 20022 and the "new" version...  This is just for curiousity's sake because you will not likely even find the old model for sale anymore because it was changed a while ago.  The old model had no plug-in switch, instead you connected one end of the switch to ground and the other end to one wire on the harness.  The newer model features a plug in switch and the wire that was used for the switch on the harness is now a "wait to start input" for diesel vehicles only.

Also the newer version has both connectors (harness and remote start connections) on the same side of the module whereas the old one had them on opposite sides (harness connector on one side, remote start wires on the other).

The last difference is the alarm control wire.  On the old one it was a -300mA output which you connected to a relay to use to give +12V to the alarms ign. input when necessary.  The new one does away with the need for the relay between the module and the alarm input wire--it has a +300mA output instead so it can be connected directly.  Those are the only differences in the modules.

Okay, for Q#3, I got to see your image by cutting and pasting the link...  Okay I was totally confused on that one.  You were talking about the ALARM only not the remote starter.  In that case forget all the stuff I said about "anti-grind" because it will only confuse you more and doesn't apply at all.

What you would do with that wire (the yellow one from the ALARM) is connect it directly to the AutoCommand's "alarm control" wire.  You would connect it that wire alone, no others.  When the AutoCommand is off (inactive) it will send +12V on that alarm anytime it "sees" +12V on the IGN1 circuit.  BUT if the AutoCommand ITSELF is powering the IGN1 wire (i.e. during remote start) then it WILL NOT send +12V on that wire.  This fools the alarm into thinking the car is NOT on and therefore your keyless entry will work even when remote started.

Sorry about the confusion.  I guess it is like they say, a picture tells 1000 words :)

Cool, thanks again Omega.  Sorry about those links, but I'm glad you got them to work.

1.  That's a pretty good price you got! :)

2.  I believe right now I have IGN1, IGN2, and the ACC wire all hooked up for the remote

Would you need a relay to use the ACC wire for the p-lights, or can you just directly hookup the ACC wire to the lights?

3. & 4.  Ok, I think I'm starting to get the theory:)

Thanks again for the help.  I'm actually going to be by another PepBoys this weekend,

WIth respect to #2, the parking lights can be hooked up if to the ACC wire without a relay if you don't need to use it for something else.  If you need to use the ACC wire then you'd use two relays on that wire (perhaps you might only need one actually) to power both the car's ACC wire and the parking lights.

As for the check, that is right--just disconnect the ACC wire (and tape it off) to the remote start.  If the car starts and runs and everything you want to have on works then you don't need to use it and then you could just hook it up to the parking lights (do NOT connect it to the dimmer circuit though) and run them like that.

Ok, stupid question:

Check this out:

He then said "You'd have to do something like hook up the alarm's IGN wire to a relay, and activate

Sorry this was a mouthful, but the saga continues.  :-)

hey omega,

Ok, to continue the saga...I went to another Pep Boys today

So, I called DesignTech tech support, and told him that I want

He said I have to call Checkmate (the alarm company) and see if

Just wanted to see what you thought about all this, and about

Thanks man!

Well strangely enough, the DT guy either had no idea what you were talking about or didn't know what he was talking about...

The 20022 specifiacally has a wire called "Alarm Control" and what it does is exactly what I described.  If the car is started (ignition turned to "on") by any  "normal" means, then that wire sends ignition voltage to the alarm's ignition input.  If started by the remote starter itself it does not send ign. voltage on the wire.  I didn't have to "make this myself" with relays or anything it is a feature that the module already has!  Surprisingly the guy at DT didn't know that (they are usually pretty good).  For this connection you don't use the shock sensor loop or any tricks, the rs has this feature built-in.

The shock sensor loop feature is separate.  It is only to prevent the alarm from either chirping or going off fully because of the vibrations present with the engine idling.  Also the shock sensor loop is a built-in feature as well.  I don't know why the guy didn't know about that either--maybe he was a rookie or something?

There wouldn't be a shut-down wire on the Checkmate since it is a stand alone alarm and uses its own transmitters for that purpose.  Most alarms do not have any other means (wires) to turn disarm them.  You aren't actually shutting down the alarm at all.  You are simply "disconnecting" the shock sensor during remote start and also "telling" the alarm the ignition ISN'T on during remote start.  If the module has an external shock sensor this should work okay.  If it has a built in shock sensor (inside the alarm brain) then you wouldn't be able to use the shock sensor loop.  (From your diagrams it looks like it uses an external sensor for shock sensing).

The 20026, is that the 1-button transmitter model?  If it is you might be able to activate it with the aux channel on the checkmate (many rs modules have an alternate activation input even if it comes with transmitters) but I'm not sure about that.  However the bad part is that you would NOT be able to bypass the shock sensor or the ignition input to the alarm which would land you back at square one!

DT does make a few keyless entry + remote start models but then you wouldn't be able to use your alarm and some of those models aren't alarms in themselves.  Furthermore the ones from DT that are alarms or have "alarm features" are missing two things one is 2stage shock sensor input--there is only an input for single stage.  The second is trunk/hood pin input (for the alarm) so only the doors would be protected.

The DT model that comes complete w/shock sensor (1 stage) and siren, and has keyless entry and rs features goes on eBay for $70-80 new.  (Used to be $50 but for some reason the seller upped his price.)  However those mentioned features of a TRUE alarm system are missing.  Also on eBay you can get a full-featured CrimeStopper CS2011-RSII for the same money.  It has RS/keyless entry/full alarm and nice transmitters.

Ok, stupid question:

He then said "You'd have to do something like hook up the alarm's IGN wire to a relay, and activate

Okay didn't see this post that was before the last so I'll try to address this one too...

On the parking light wire, if you got the parking light wire colour from a "install sheet" or guide (from here on 12v or elsewhere) it is pretty much going to be the right wire.  Didn't mean to scare you there, just didn't know you had the wire colours already :)

As for connecting a relay to the white (ignition) wire of the remote starter to prevent the alarm from seeing ignition voltage--there is no way that will work unless you get some really huge diode!  The reason being is because that wire is in parallel with the cars ignition wire.  That means you will get ignition voltage ANYTIME the ignition is at +12v  (whether the car is running by the key OR by the rs).  The problem there is that when you used the key to take over from the rs or to start the car normally then the alarm would not see ignition voltage meaning it could become armed and also go into full siren when you're driving around!

Therefore the only way I can see to use the BullDog for this application is if that "FASD wire" is putting out a CONSTANT output.  Check the wire with a DMM (if available) and see what happens during remote start.  If the wire reads a constant GROUND (does not simply pulse GROUND and then go back to nothing/12V) then you could utilise that wire.  Otherwise you're stuck where you are.

Edit:  I edited the above paragraph.  At first I thought the FASD wire was a 12V output but now I see it is a ground output.  Therefore it has to be constant GROUND (when the RS is ACTIVE only) for it to work.