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Proper Fiberglass thicknees


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ice4life8269 
Copper - Posts: 112
Copper spacespace
Joined: March 31, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: October 19, 2004 at 5:42 AM / IP Logged  
the woven cloth is ONLY strong in 2 directions. the chop mat is stronger because the fibers go in all directions, not just 2 ways.... the woven mat is easier to finnish, way easier the trying to finnish a layer of fleece... 1/4 might be too thin if the box is going to hold 4 subs, even if they are 0's.
audiomechanic 
Silver - Posts: 388
Silver spacespace
Joined: November 09, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: October 19, 2004 at 6:59 AM / IP Logged  
i am having a difficult time trying to figure out why everyone has a hard time finishing fleece?
what are the problems that you guys are running in to?
dpaton 
Copper - Posts: 141
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 20, 2004 at 6:51 PM / IP Logged  
ice4life8269 wrote:
the woven cloth is ONLY strong in 2 directions. the chop mat is stronger because the fibers go in all directions, not just 2 ways....
Unfortuately that's the furthest thing from the truth. Woven mat is inherantly stronger, once it's in the resin, because of it's weave. Chop mat has no overall structure, and there is little to keep asymmetrical stresses from compromising it's structure.
Ask anyone who makes composite aircraft. Chop mat is only used as nonstructural filler. Vacuum bagged woven mat is where it's at.
-dave
This is not a sig. This is a duck. Quack.
boxmaker85 
Silver - Posts: 433
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 20, 2004 at 11:29 PM / IP Logged  
I was thinking about that dpaton...  Look at good old physics class.  If you have a force in the x direction and a force in the y direction you get a resultant force in the x-y direction.  Now reverse that and apply it to woven fiberglass.  You have a force (pressure) acting in a direction (lets say for crap's sake) 30 degrees above the x axis.  It has a component in the x and y direction right?  Those directions are the directions the fiberglass cloth is woven.  Sorry bout the explination but I get into a lecture mode when people talk about stuff like this.  Can you tell I'm an engineer?   Proper Fiberglass thicknees - Page 2 -- posted image.
Carbonb 
Copper - Posts: 113
Copper spacespace
Joined: October 09, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 20, 2004 at 11:56 PM / IP Logged  

Wouldn't the cloth be flat? It is going in both direction while it is woven, I don't think I would explain it in terms of X and Y and a graph.

I would say that since the tight weave it would bind together and make the overall structure stronger, due to the simple idea of it being bonded completely do each other instead of being in little pieces.

realitycheck 
Silver - Posts: 751
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 09, 2004
Posted: October 21, 2004 at 8:13 AM / IP Logged  
So the fiberglass cloth is stronger then the mat.  So why do you have to put like 10 layers of cloth down compared to like 6 of the mat?
boxmaker85 
Silver - Posts: 433
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 21, 2004 at 9:29 AM / IP Logged  

Yes the cloth is flat.  Looking at the fg cloth when it's flat up being the y direction x going across and an imaginary z axis coming up toward you.  You have an x and y direction.  But it's not in terms of a graph necicarily but as the cloth's components of x and y.  And some woven cloth is not very tightly woven.  Take carbon fiber for example.  Extremely strong right?  But you normally tape the cut edges to prevent it from coming undone so easily.  Now not it's not falling appart loose but you get what I'm saying.  The moral of the story:  Fiberglass cloth is stronger then mat.

To answer realitycheck:  It's the other way around and normally a bigger ratio.  You usually only have to put like 2 layers of cloth down to get like 7 or 8 layer's of mat.  Cloth is normally a heavier weight (4 or more oz.)  while cloth is either 3/4 or 1.5 oz.  You could put down about 2 layers of 4 oz cloth and it would be about equal to 6-8 layers of 1.5 oz mat.  A 10 layer clothed enclosure would support like 10 13w7 subs running 1000 watts each.  Enough to park your whole car on (well, maybe depends on what car).

realitycheck 
Silver - Posts: 751
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 09, 2004
Posted: October 21, 2004 at 10:26 AM / IP Logged  
So how many layers of the cloth would it take to handle two 12" rockford subs like 250 watts each,   I am using the cloth you get at wal mart, so im assuming its 1.5 oz.  Can someone please help with this question.
boxmaker85 
Silver - Posts: 433
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 19, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: October 21, 2004 at 2:51 PM / IP Logged  
1.5 oz cloth or mat?  Is it tiny strands of fg going in every direction or does it look like white fiberglass?  If it's cloth then it's probably 3 or 4 oz.  Use about 2 layers in addition to you're resined fleece/cloth material.  DO NOT tear this up.  It's woven design is where it's strength comes from.  If it's mat then it's probably 1.5 oz., use about 8 layers of this.  When using the mat then take and tear it up into 2" x 2" pieces (tear don't cut, tearing allows the edges to blend better) and resin those on.  Sand and finish to you're liking.
realitycheck 
Silver - Posts: 751
Silver spacespace
Joined: September 09, 2004
Posted: October 21, 2004 at 3:01 PM / IP Logged  
Well my first layer was mat the stuff that youre talking about that goes in every direction. But, I think I will take that back and get the cloth since I hear its easier to get bubbles and also easier to lay down. But I still need to know how many layers of the cloth I need to lay down? and by cloth I mean the stuff thats checkered like.  This that im referring is the same stuff they sell at home depot or lowes.  How many do you guys say?
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