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dragonrage

Copper - Posts: 193

Joined: March 15, 2003

Location: United States

Posted: November 15, 2004 at 12:09 AM / IP Logged

I'm too lazy to read this whole thread :D but I will tell you this: Get Peerless, Scan Speak or Vifa drivers.

2009 Pontiac G8 in planning stage

HU: ?

Speakers: ?

Amps: ?

DYohn

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Joined: April 22, 2003

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 15, 2004 at 8:24 AM / IP Logged

ESS made fantastic loudspeakers. I have a set of ESS AMT1b towers (which I purchased in 1977) that are still far and away my favorite sounding speakers.

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stevdart

Platinum - Posts: 5,816

This member consistently provides reliable information

Joined: January 24, 2004

Location: Pennsylvania, United States

Posted: November 15, 2004 at 3:17 PM / IP Logged

I wish I understood the value of those ribbon tweeters back then. Another item in my first stereo setup was a Nakamichi cassette deck, the last model (something-400) they made with the piano keys. It was small in size, and everybody wondered why I paid so much ($278 BX price) for a deck so small. The newest decks were monster-sized Pioneers and Sonys with soft-touch buttons. With speakers, everybody wanted the Bose 901's because you could play them so loud your ears would go numb, but most everybody had some version of Kenwood or Pioneer or sometimes JBL 3-ways. Most of them sucked for sound.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.

haemphyst

Platinum - Posts: 5,059

Joined: January 19, 2003

Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island

Posted: November 15, 2004 at 9:12 PM / IP Logged

Ahhh, the venerable AMT... yep, my mind went a joggin'... Thanks DYohn. However the driver you linked to, the BG NEO8, is NOT a ribbon driver. It is a planar magnetic driver. The difference is the fact that the PM driver's diaphragm is connected to the speaker chassis on all four sides, where a true ribbon will ONLY be connected on the top and bottom. Also, a PM can usually be driven directly by an amplifier with nothing between the amp and the diaphragm, and a true ribbon will almost always require an impedance matching transformer. NOT saying you are wrong, just chiming in with information for everybody... I also am a personal friend of Tom Bohlender, of Bohlender/Graebner, the inventor of those particular drivers. I have a pair of his 52 inch drivers in my living room. He corrected me MANY times before I got it right Car audio home audio ? - Page 4 -- posted image.

Car audio home audio ? - Page 4 -- posted image.

You are correct, in regards to the D'Appolito design and ribbon drivers, but do not be fooled! Ribbons can be VERY successfully integrated into an MTM design with very specific dispersion patterns in mind. If it is placed vertically, you will get a SPECTACULAR, deep, three dimensional image, BUT you must plan the tweeter height to be at EXACTLY your ear's height. If you place it on the horizontal axis, you can improve the vertical dispersion of the system, but your HF sweet spot will become vanishingly small, due to the vertical dispersion characteristics of the ribbon (or PM).

(I have to go to dinner now with my wife, but I will continue later - Thanks for your attention! LOL)

I like the look of those Fountek ribbons, and I may need to purchase a pair for experimentation purposes, and maybe integrate a pair into my car - BOOYAH!

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst

Platinum - Posts: 5,059

Joined: January 19, 2003

Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island

Posted: November 16, 2004 at 12:54 AM / IP Logged

Steven... I'm surprised at you... LOL Ribbons are way more than a fad! Ribbons are the most accurate and airy sounding drivers readily available on the planet! OK, I jest, there are others, just as revealing, out there, but as far as frequency response, there is nothing in the dynamic world to touch them. There are many experts that believe that there are many psychoacoustic cues in music, that live at frequencies well above 20K. Now, being as old as I am, and having abused my hearing as much as I have, I am admittedly at a bit of a disadvantage to hear everything up there... (probably not much beyond 16K, truth be told) but I have to say with all honesty, when I hear a very nice system, with ribbon tweeters, there is just something about the "feel" and the "emotion" that is revealed. It is difficult to explain... Imagine a diet chocolate bar, and a real chocolate bar... they taste the same, there's just a little something "extra" in the real chocolate... OK, bad correlation... but you know what I'm saying right?

Anyway, I think I'm done now... Anybody on this board thinking about going to the CES in January? PM me and let's see about getting together there! I'd like to meet some of the brainpower here!

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

Steven Kephart

Platinum - Posts: 1,737

Joined: November 06, 2003

Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: November 16, 2004 at 2:24 AM / IP Logged

haemphyst wrote:

I think it's a matter of strengths and weaknesses. As this is going to be their first project, I thought it would be best to go with a standard driver instead. Think of it as similar to a manual transmission and an automatic. Sure a manual transmission can provide better performance in skilled hands. But the Automatic is much easier to learn to drive on. Car audio home audio ? - Page 4 -- posted image.

haemphyst wrote:

Anyway, I think I'm done now... Anybody on this board thinking about going to the CES in January? PM me and let's see about getting together there! I'd like to meet some of the brainpower here!

I will be there. But I will probably have to work during most of the show. You definitely should stop by our room though. We will have a lot of stuff to look at and hopefully listen to. I'm really hoping Acoustic Visions brings their Everest again as I really want to experience that monster. Using dual Tumults and quad PR's, you know that thing will be loud.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

haemphyst

Platinum - Posts: 5,059

Joined: January 19, 2003

Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island

Posted: November 16, 2004 at 7:54 AM / IP Logged

I heard the Everest... That thing was AMAZING! Not just the output, which was like nothing I had expected, but the EXTENSION!!! I LOVE deep, fast, controlled bass. REAL bass. Kyle has that thing done right! It would be great if it could be demo'd in a bigger room, as the room it was in was too small for HALF that box! Oh, well... Still, yep, it is truly something to be experienced!

It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

DYohn

Moderator - Posts: 10,741

Joined: April 22, 2003

Location: Arizona, United States

Posted: November 16, 2004 at 12:18 PM / IP Logged

haemphyst wrote:

However the driver you linked to, the BG NEO8, is NOT a ribbon driver. It is a planar magnetic driver.

Ah yes, a difference only an engineer could love! They sound very good, and have the kind of extended high-end response usually associated with a "real" ribbon. A highly recomended driver.

haemphyst wrote:

Precisely what I was trying to say. :)

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Steven Kephart

Platinum - Posts: 1,737

Joined: November 06, 2003

Location: Oregon, United States

Posted: November 19, 2004 at 2:12 AM / IP Logged

kfr01 wrote:

I'm even more sold on the Extremis than I was to begin with.

Sorry for bringing this one back from the dead. But I thought of one other fun "selling" point for the Extremis mids. About a month ago I did an excursion video with one and thought you might enjoy watching it. Here's the link: http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/Extremis6.AVI

I'll bet you have never seen a mid move that far before. Car audio home audio ? - Page 4 -- posted image. That's what they call speaker porn. We have one of a Brahma 15 on our website as well. Once we get the files downsized, we will finally have up the one's I did of the Brahma 10 and Tumult as well. Man it's fun abusing expensive speakers without concern.

BTW, all those videos were shot with at the most 250 watts of power.

Steven Kephart

Adire Audio

kfr01

Gold - Posts: 2,121

Joined: April 30, 2003

Posted: November 19, 2004 at 10:18 AM / IP Logged

Kinda glad you revived this topic a bit. I've been looking at amplification. I'd really like to use something like the Behringer DCX digital crossover, but it is built for pro-audio. People on diyaudio.com seem to suggest either building 6-channel attenuation for home audio amplifier, buying a pro-audio amplifier, or building one of your own.

1st) The UcD amplifier module is intriguing to me. I've never built an amp. Do you have a sense for how much money, outside of the enclosure, it usually takes to get a UcD up and running? Power supply, slowstart, etc.? Also, after browsing pages and pages of UcD topic on that forum I learned that everyone seems to be connecting their UcD differently. Do you know if there is a reference design?

2nd) How do you all feel about a pro-audio amplifier from a company like QSC? They seem to be low priced and reasonably clean. Something like this combined with the behringer would make a digital crossover easy to implement. I really like the fact that SoundEasy software, LspCad too I think, interface directly with the behringer.

Thoughts?

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder

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