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One thought on rear speakers


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kfr01 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:02 PM / IP Logged  
I think a lot of you are missing the fact that without some EQing and time correction you're going to cause some strange frequency response and phase problems with different musical sources playing the same frequencies on the same channel.
Wiseguy, you're right, at a symphony sound just doesn't come from the front. However, MOST of it does. What DOES come from the back is ambient noise reflection providing fill. In my opinion this is fine to replicate in a car. However, MOST cars with 6x9s I've seen do NOTHING TO ATTENUATE the rear speakers. This exaggerates any phase / frequency problems and detracts from your front stage.
This is kind of like the mp3 encoding bitrate topic to me in that it is FINE if you want to put in some $200 6x9s and amp them. I'm really happy for you if you like the sound.
HOWEVER, don't claim to have awesome sound quality, because most people in the car audio and home audio world will probably disagree with you.
How is saying, "Don't spend money on rear fill" elitist? That doesn't make any sense. Telling someone the best way to do something on a budget isn't being elitist. It is being smart and assigning monetary priority to areas of relative importance.
If trying to save some poor kid a bit of money when he asks about SQ is being "elitist," then fine, I guess I'm elitist.
btw. Maybe grown-ups don't care about how their passenger's sound is because all their friends have cars and they rarely have passengers. ;-) (joke right back at yah :-)
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auex 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:15 PM / IP Logged  
Why do I care how it sounds in the back seat? I never sit there while driving, and when I am back there I don't care about what the music sounds like One thought on rear speakers - Page 2 -- posted image. .
Oh yeah, you guys need to keep this post on topic or it will derail very quickly. My opinion is that rear fill isn't needed but there is nothing wrong with having rear speakers.
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Wiseguy 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:20 PM / IP Logged  

kfr01 wrote:
Wiseguy, you're right, at a symphony sound just doesn't come from the front. However, MOST of it does. What DOES come from the back is ambient noise reflection providing fill. In my opinion this is fine to replicate in a car. However, MOST cars with 6x9s I've seen do NOTHING TO ATTENUATE the rear speakers. This exaggerates any phase / frequency problems and detracts from your front stage.

sorry to be an ass One thought on rear speakers - Page 2 -- posted image.,i know that in real time it does all comes from the front and the rest is all reflected ambient noise, but thats besides the point i was trying to make

in a car it is impossible to achieve that with just a front stage unless your car is build like a symphony hall, but then again ppl are crazy in this world maybe someone hs done this, and i have yet to see it

im sorry guys what was this topic about again? rear  speakers, lol i love how stuff gets off topic here,

ok ill shut up now

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tomos 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:29 PM / IP Logged  
Time correction seems a bit of a gimick to me. I see it on all singing flashy light decks that can even download a map of your car speaker positions and set time correction accordingly. Being that sound travels at 300 meters/s means speakers 2 meters behind your head will produce sound that arrives 0.006 seconds late. Home cinema systems are sometimes set up with a microphone to check balance and timing but the rooms are a lot bigger than a car and that is probably necessary.
As for EQing I do fade my system a lot to the front or the image is pulled back. I can hear that quite obviously.
By elitist I'm comparing to the judges that wiseguy speaks of. I also think that a lot of people respect those judges and their wisdom filters through as advice to regular people. I wasn't talking about budget either, just people in general buying for their enjoyment (and perhaps others who will be sharing the car)
Yeah grown ups all probably do have their own cars, and kids too. If your back seats never get used and you're well into your audio they would have been replaced by a wall of subs anyway One thought on rear speakers - Page 2 -- posted image.
What's that flippie??
kfr01 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:30 PM / IP Logged  
Hey, I'm totally with you. Rear-fill DONE RIGHT and ATTENUATED can turn a good SQ system into a great SQ system by giving it that symphony or concert feel.
However, most of the kids out there that love the 6x9s don't have this purpose in mind. They CRANK the 6x9s as loud as possible.
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tomos 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:40 PM / IP Logged  
How much reflection is there in a car anyway. Theres waves bouncin' all over the place! Off the windows, doors and off your head! I think its cheaper and easier to achieve ultimate SQ for you and all your passengers by putting some expensive headphones in a bunch of crash helmets and give them to your passengers. Perhaps a little dynamat in there too.
What's that flippie??
Wiseguy 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:43 PM / IP Logged  

tomos wrote:
How much reflection is there in a car anyway. Theres waves bouncin' all over the place! Off the windows, doors and off your head! I think its cheaper and easier to achieve ultimate SQ for you and all your passengers by putting some expensive headphones in a bunch of crash helmets and give them to your passengers. Perhaps a little dynamat in there too.

HAHA sounds good to me

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wolf.zero 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 1:48 PM / IP Logged  

i also love my music but you have to learn to reach compromises

The problem is the accoustics of any car (metal box of non uniform shape with voids and baffles ie,footwells and seats) is going to influence what quality of sound you get.

the popular 6x9 speakers are actualy not going to give you highest quality sound anyway, because of their oval shape you can not reproduce the same quality of sound as a round speaker of the equivilent power/impedence    (if you still require proof ask a sound studio audio engineer to test oval v round, round wins every time)

the mounting of speakers on a parcel shelf will not work well either due to the large viod below and so called accoustic shelves only help by dissipating some vibration.

possibly the best location for the mounting of any speaker is the doors, doors in general have a rigid structure small void and the ruber weather strip (door seal) gives good insulation from vibration.

so if you have a 4 door car and want rear speakers you have an easy solution not only is it going to provide you with rear infill it also means the rear passengers get the same range as you up front.

if you want concert performance get in your car and drive it to a concert.

also try this one for size, my car is a two seater  so rear passenger volume/quality arguments are no longer valid the current set up is matched pairs front and rear, two in the front doors with the rear pair fitted securely into the side trim panels with a ring of rubber insulating them from direct contact with any metal.

Sweekster 
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Posted: November 15, 2004 at 6:13 PM / IP Logged  
I really think it depends on the system. I've heard both "true SQ" systems with just components up front and a sub in rear and SQ systems that incorporate rear fill. On bigger vehicles like sedans and wagons and suvs, rear fill may be needed (in MY opinion). On trucks and hatchbacks it may not be needed. Depends on who is listening what they are listening to.
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If you think you're confused, imagine how you feel.   One thought on rear speakers - Page 2 -- posted image.
haemphyst 
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Posted: November 16, 2004 at 1:04 AM / IP Logged  
yep... I got 6 bys in the rear deck, but they are WAY less powered than the rest of the system... I can not "hear" them specifically, but there really something "missing" when I fade to the front. The soundstage also seems to fall to somewhere under the dash too... I think "surround" is a waste in the car, but rear fill is most definitely NOT. My '86 Civic never had rears, now that I have the '01, I can hear what I was missing in the old system.
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
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