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mp3 quality


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hurtado_roberto 
Copper - Posts: 196
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Joined: July 30, 2004
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Posted: November 25, 2004 at 12:08 PM / IP Logged  
When a song file is compressed into mp3 it looses some of it's frequency responce doesn't it? I was wondering if that only happened when compressed to 128 kbit/sec. If you have and mp3 compressed at 160 kbit/sec or higher does it still have the same sound quality as a CD?
Poly Dollies
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: November 25, 2004 at 12:18 PM / IP Logged  
Although some of the better compression schemes do sound pretty good, there is no MP3 file that will sound as good as a CD.  The best MP3 is about the same sund quality as an FM radio broadcast.
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kfr01 
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Posted: November 25, 2004 at 12:20 PM / IP Logged  

Please seach the forums for this.  We've discussed it multiple times.  mp3 will never be the same as CD quality.  mp3 is a lossy format, it ALWAYS loses frequency information and detail.  160 is much better than 128.  192 is better than 160.  256 is even better.  Use the highest bitrate you can.  VBR helps quite a bit.

My advice:  if you MUST use mp3 check out the guides here:  http://www.ubershare.com/

New Project: 2003 Pathfinder
pacojoebob 
Member - Posts: 15
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Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 25, 2004 at 8:06 PM / IP Logged  
Mp3 is way better than FM at 192kbit. I do notice some difference when I put in a regualar cd but It's a lot easier to carry 50 cd's worth of music on 5-10 mp3 cd's @ 192. Another bonus is see the names of all of the songs when they are playing.
DYohn 
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Joined: April 22, 2003
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: November 25, 2004 at 10:09 PM / IP Logged  
FM stereo radio utlizes 55Khz of their signal bandwidth for the L-R and L+R program information, with a theoretical frequency response of 1Hz - 22.5Khz and a practical frequency response of 20Hz - 15.5KHz.  FM stereo transmission can achieve a standard dynamic range of 60db and with compression up to 80db.  Standard MP3, as described by the MPEG in 1991, uses a 10-1 compression algorithm on digital audio files.  While digital audio can achieve much higher theoretical dynamic range (up to 96db, but more like 80db in practice) the MP3 algorithm filters frequencies above 16KHz and below 50Hz due to noise introduced by the compression scheme.  It sounds like FM radio, with poorer bass response.  Some newer MP3 encoding algorithms (most notably those used by Apple and LAME and some of the newer "lossless" schemes) have wider frequency response, but they still emply several notch filters to remove noise artifacts and these impact frequency response.   To me, MP3 files sound just like FM radio, lacking the detail and warmth I want to hear.   If you like them, then by all means use them!
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haemphyst 
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Joined: January 19, 2003
Location: Michigan, Bouvet Island
Posted: November 25, 2004 at 11:35 PM / IP Logged  
MP3 and quality is an oxymoron... it can't happen.
Oh, and Happy Thanksgiving, everybody!
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
bullman96 
Silver - Posts: 294
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Joined: October 03, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 26, 2004 at 12:37 AM / IP Logged  

dyohn, i know it is a bold move to disagree with you, but when encoded properly, mp3's will be pretty damn close to cd quality.  with modern cd's the way they are sometimes even better when you bring everything down to below 0db.  as long as you rip the cds with a good scsi drive and encode them with a program like lame and oversample the hell out of them they will sound good.  all my test tones are mp3s and trust me they do go below 50hz and well above 16khz.  the problem is people dont understand that the standard compression for them now is the same as when us computer nerds were trying to cram all our music onto a 1 gigger.  with a slightly modified codec, there is absoloutely no loss of any tones though no mp3 player or deck that is able to play mp3 cd's will be able to use it.  for home audio though, with well made mp3's and a good sound card, they will sound just as good as a cd.  same information, just rearranged.  i know you will all disagree, but when i get home ill post some waves and mp3's of a few things so you can compare.  the differences you will find will be so small that even the most hardcore audiophile's ear will not be able to detect them.  now all analog is the way to go anyways

hurtado_roberto 
Copper - Posts: 196
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Joined: July 30, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 26, 2004 at 1:49 AM / IP Logged  
Is a cd completely analog or is the wav file somehow compressed? I heard albums were 100% analog. Is this true?
Poly Dollies
bullman96 
Silver - Posts: 294
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Joined: October 03, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: November 26, 2004 at 2:37 AM / IP Logged  
a cd is completely digital until it is decoded by the cdplayer.  it is the conversion to wavs that is generally why a cd will not sound as good as a vinyl.  although a well done cd can sound just as good as long as the dac is as good
tomos 
Copper - Posts: 78
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 20, 2004
Location: United Kingdom
Posted: November 26, 2004 at 3:15 AM / IP Logged  
I am more a home theatre guy than car audio and on my last visit to Walrusin London I had a listen to some Tannoy speakers that had something called 'super tweeters' in them that could reproduce a lot of sound that the human ear can't hear. Why? I hear you scream!
The basic premise was that frequencies that cannot be heard (somewhere over 15k and below 30hz for adults) still affect audible frequencies. The more you cut out from a recording the less it sounds like what was being recorded. Slightly gimicky perhaps but I can say these speakers really did have an extra something in the upper frequency. I didn't buy them though as I didn't like the bass response (D'oh!)
Anyway, the point is Mp3s and other formats (even some lossless) still work on the assumption that if you can't hear it anyway - it should go. A comparable difference albeit it slight.
What's that flippie??
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