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best place to mount shock sensor?


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bretbowman 
Copper - Posts: 156
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 14, 2005 at 10:00 PM / IP Logged  

Ok, so how much "experience" credit do you give Directed Electronics, Inc. ?

THEY are the ones who make this recommendation.

So, I guess on THAT note, it's my $200 million  best place to mount shock sensor? - Page 2 -- posted image.

This forum is full of so many big headed, self righteous installers it's almost shocking.

===================

Here are some links partially for your reading pleasure, but more so to dispell your ignorance:

http://www.crutchfieldadvisor.com/ISEO-rgbtcspd/learningcenter/car/security_install.html

Quote from above link: "Attach shock sensors solidly to a metal surface, using screws. Try to take advantage of an existing screw in your vehicle. If you can't find a good one, you'll have to supply your own screw. As an alternative, you can strap the shock sensor down, using nylon wire ties. Do not use Velcro or tape. "

http://www.commandoalarms.com/installtips.html

Quote from above link: "Find a location for the shock sensor that is close to the control module so the wire will not have to be extended. Keep the sensor away from heat sources. Mounting the shock sensor to the steering column (making sure not to interfere with the steering functionality) or tie wrap the sensor to the alarm wiring harness bundle for added sensitivity."

2002 Toyota Sequoia Limited 2WD (Clifford G5 Avantguard 5 w/ 2 SmartWindows modules) - IT Engineer - NRA Life Member - LDS Return Missionary - Married for time AND ETERNITY - Eternally sealed family
Hornshockey 
Silver - Posts: 520
Silver spacespace
Joined: January 31, 2005
Location: Texas, United States
Posted: March 15, 2005 at 1:46 AM / IP Logged  
Bret do you notice how it recommends attaching the sensor to the alarm wiring harness for added sensitivity?  I believe you've just contradicted your own opinion.   It's all relative to mass and intertia.  A piece with a higher density and thus more mass will require more force to move it.  A wiring harness is much less dense than the firewall or the steering column.  It takes alot less force to make a wiring harness move than a large chunk of metal.    I'd agree with the hanging sensor except I think it would cause alot of false alarms, high winds for example would cause that setup to trigger.  I'd have to agree with bob.
Life moves pretty fast; if you don't stop and look around once in a while; you could miss it.
steveholtam 
Copper - Posts: 55
Copper spacespace
Joined: June 11, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: March 15, 2005 at 11:25 AM / IP Logged  
I can say where NOT to install the sensor. I zip tied it to the alarm itself! I did that last weekend thinking I'd have a nice clean install this way. Well, my pea brain forgot about all the relays built into the alarm unit. I couldnt even lock the doors without tripping that thing :-)   It was funny, and easy to fix.
Steve
wbread99 
Member - Posts: 1
Member spacespace
Joined: February 24, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 15, 2005 at 4:23 PM / IP Logged  

Ahhhh.... the wiring harness will wiggle and shake, setting off the trigger. Good point. I where DEI and my new crimestopper alarm said use the harness. Thought they were insane.

Have my CS sensor mounted to the firewall and I'm not that impressed. Will relocate to the fat harness....

Sean White
Ramstein Air Base, Germany
bretbowman 
Copper - Posts: 156
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 15, 2005 at 8:32 PM / IP Logged  

The point that you're failing to see if that malicious shock will likely come from outside the car, which shock has to "shake" (if you will) the "piece with a higher density" as you put it, in order to shake that same "fat wiring harness".  As the vibration travels through more objects, it is going to gradually be absorbed and there will be less vibration to trigger the alarm once the it reaches the sensor.

As an example, say some one kicks a big dent in your drivers door.  That "malicious shock" (for lack of better term) will travel through the sheet metal of the door to the hinges in front and the locking mechanism in back into the body/frame of the vehicle.  From there will shake the firewall and may perhaps the wiring harnesses at some point.

I don't think that any one would argue that the wiring harness, not being a solid structure WILL absorb, to some degree, an amount of the shock or vibration, which DECREASES sensitivity.  That also is simple physics.  If the shock is going to travel THROUGH the frame/body of the car to GET TO a wiring harness, you're going to get the most sensitivity by mounting the shock sensor earlier in the vibration chain (if you will) so that the shock sensor picks up the shock before it has travelled through MORE items that are going to absorb the shock.

Given this, if you mount that same shock sensor INSIDE THE DOOR that was maliciously kicked, that will give you the greatest amount of sensitivity.  Since most cars only have a single shock sensor, most 'professional' installers recommend mounting the sensor central so that it will evenly 'sense' shock from any part of the vehicle (front, back, etc.)  However, doing this, you are RELYING on the fact that if someone rear ends your car in a parking lot that the vibration is going to travel through several components (all of which will absorb some of the shock) and still have ENOUGH "shock" left over to set off the sensor to notify the alarm to go off.

The bottom line and FACT of the matter is that by mounting a shock sensor on the wiring harness, you're placing the sensor "farther down in the food chain" so to speak, as opposed to mounting the shock sensor to the body/frame of the vehicle, which you're relying on to "transfer" the shock anyway.

Suit yourselves... where ever you mount your shock sensors, thoroughly test them to make sure that they are sensitive to your satisfaction.   All I can tell you is that if you mount the sensor ON THE FRAME/BODY/FIREWALL, your sensor will be "closer" to the SOURCE of the shock and therefore will receive more vibration, making it (in theory) MORE senitive.  At that point, you can decrease your adjustment on the sensor to fine tune the degree of sensitivity that you want.

This is the FACT of the matter, friends!

2002 Toyota Sequoia Limited 2WD (Clifford G5 Avantguard 5 w/ 2 SmartWindows modules) - IT Engineer - NRA Life Member - LDS Return Missionary - Married for time AND ETERNITY - Eternally sealed family
thepencil 
Gold - Posts: 1,526
Gold spacespace
Joined: December 16, 2002
Location: Canada
Posted: March 15, 2005 at 9:55 PM / IP Logged  
There is nothing like a good discussion with a cup of coffee. I am going to take side and agree with Bretbowman. As much as you guys out there who wants to sell me the idea of the Kryptonite Zip Tied on the shock sensor to a large harness. I won’t buy it. I don’t know if you guys have seen one of Jim Carrey movie Liar Liar where his son tells him that beauty is in the inside then he tell his son that “Only ugly people say that”.     A reference to that movie with similar ideas of the Kryptonite Zip Tied to the shock sensor on the main harness. I would say only lazy people does that.   I fall into that category at a time early in my career when things got busy at the shop then I got lazy and simply zip tied it to the main harness, but now I screw mount the shock sensor to a solid surface no matter what. It’s a lot of work to screw mount the shock sensor then it is to put a zip tied around it. At the end of it I know that screw mount is the most effective way for me.
I have done a lot of jobs for customer with the requested of servicing false alarm in the middle of the night. 90% of the time I will find that’s it’s related to a faulty hood pin switch that have been bent from the mounting bracket so it gets grounded some of the time. Of the remaining percentage I get paid for installer error which would includes remounting the shock sensor to a solid surface. And yes, I will bring the customer in to look at the original install to see how it was mounted. Then I will remount the shock sensor to a solid surface. Later in the week I will have a follow up call to see if there was any improvement with my installation. With that, I am almost certain that I will get all future business from them and their acquaintances.
I am a probability guy and the fact that there has been more job given to me with a false alarm with the shock sensor on the harness have made me believe that a solid surface mount is much better, so I am sticking with that probability for the time being.   Personally I don’t think there is a great deal of differences between mounting the sensor to the main harness verse a solid surface. If you are the best at what you do it shouldn’t matter. If you have a lot of success with the harness by all means go for it and be the King of the main harness mount guy while me and Bretbowman and a few others will be the King of the solid surface mount guys.    For the do it yourseIfer out there, you can mount them however you like while for the rest of us professional here we have to argue between solid surface mount or main harness mount because the rest of the world don’t give a dame about our struggle and effort of our work, but are only concern with the result of a good install. Yes, that is correct. The world never looks at your effort just result.
“This forum is full of so many big headed, self righteous installers it's almost shocking.”
There are too many to say the least so don’t take it personnel and get jealous as they will only flatter themselves with your jealously.     
Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it.best place to mount shock sensor? - Page 2 -- posted image.
bretbowman 
Copper - Posts: 156
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 17, 2005 at 8:29 PM / IP Logged  
Very well put thepencil.  Probably couldn't have said it better myself.   best place to mount shock sensor? - Page 2 -- posted image.
2002 Toyota Sequoia Limited 2WD (Clifford G5 Avantguard 5 w/ 2 SmartWindows modules) - IT Engineer - NRA Life Member - LDS Return Missionary - Married for time AND ETERNITY - Eternally sealed family
JoshV 
Copper - Posts: 50
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 15, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 18, 2005 at 11:26 PM / IP Logged  

I also agree with Bret-

  A shock sensor picks up vibration,   not movement.    The frame of the vehicle will have way more vibration than any wire harness in a car.         If you want false triggers when its windy then by all means zip tie that sucker to a wire harness because it will be moving along with the car.   

To each his own.    Do whatever you think is best.     But it seems if you get back to basics youll probably find good sense in why its better to mount to a solid part of the car. 

nava94 
Silver - Posts: 296
Silver spacespace
Joined: February 28, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: March 19, 2005 at 12:42 PM / IP Logged  
my opinion is to the frame of the car and if you have a limo for a car then use two shocks.
bretbowman 
Copper - Posts: 156
Copper spacespace
Joined: February 17, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: March 20, 2005 at 11:21 AM / IP Logged  

I'll tell you what... to keep an open mind, I'll mount mine to a large wire bundle and do some theoretic testing to see if it seems that the sensor is more sensitive.  I do think that I'll likely mount it back to the firewall under the dash, but I have no problem admitting if I'm wrong and will certainly keep the sensor wired to the harness if it seems that it's more sensitive there.

I just think that simple physics tells me that mounting to the body (or frame, even better) is going to give you the most even sensitivity throughout the whole car.  I don't see how it can be disputed that a wire harness, no matter how big, will absorb some of the vibration.  I'll post results later next week when I get around to this.   :)

2002 Toyota Sequoia Limited 2WD (Clifford G5 Avantguard 5 w/ 2 SmartWindows modules) - IT Engineer - NRA Life Member - LDS Return Missionary - Married for time AND ETERNITY - Eternally sealed family
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