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Electrical Load Detector Killed My system


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skoldspuppy 
Silver - Posts: 342
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Joined: July 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 2:30 PM / IP Logged  

Well the time has come for my entire electrical system to die

The wifes 2004 Civic is no more
The Wound up 150 Amp alternator = Dead
The Computer Brain = Dead
The cause = Electrical Load Detector that also died

It seems that this little device that honda puts on there newer cars, seems to have a fatal flaw when you bypass it and try to run an 1500 watt amp

Luckly all this was covered under warranty so no out of cost, except I had to lie to the dealer ship and say the alternator was the stock one, or spend a few months with my attorney suing honda, because they were not going to cover my problmes
So now im back to a complete stock electrical system including the measly 70amp alt, execpt for the BIG3
So now after a long chat with 3 different import specialty shops and the dealer, we cant find a way to hook up my system safley, even with a HO alt
Since the stock alternator doesnt even turn on until 2000 RPM I can use my system unless Im at highway speeds,  Damn ELD
So now I need to know how to generate enough power to the equipment at 1999 RPM's and lower, since this is the period that the ELD shuts the alternator off
Otherwise If I go back to the HO route my Electrical is going to fry in 6 months just like it did yesterday
So Im thinking its about new car time for us, anyone know off hand if there still putting 100+ amp alternators in cars these days from the factory?
Or if anyone here has any other solution
Lets put it this way im not opposed to running multiple batteries and every night pluging the car into a battery charger

Help Please.. I dont want to buy a new car.. well ok I do but please help if you can

Thanks all

---Skold

2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr
Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell
fastone 
Copper - Posts: 83
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 01, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 2:54 PM / IP Logged  
So what happened here? How could this have killed the computer & alternator? Sorry, I've never heard of this device before. Are there any other cars that have them? If I install a system in somebody's car and do this much damage, we got us a REAL problem!
Famous last words: Hey man, what's this wire do?
skoldspuppy 
Silver - Posts: 342
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Joined: July 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 3:15 PM / IP Logged  

From a Master Tech at my Honda Dealership, also aggreed on by 3 independent Import shops:

Coral Springs Honda wrote:

The ELD is essentially a current transformer that monitors the amount of current draw the car is pulling from the battery. This amount varies from time to time depending on what you have turned on (various electrical devices). The ELD will output .1 - 4.8 volts to the ECU. This reference voltage is what tells the ECU to increase or decrease the field strength in the alternator, which in turn bumps up the output of the alternator.

Since all aftermarket electrical feeds are pretty much tapped off of the positive terminal of the battery, the current path is not flowing through the ELD. What does this do? All of the amplifiers, LCD monitors, and pretty much anything else that isn't fed through the factory wiring of the car draw a lot of current.
Since the ELD isn't detecting any additional current draw from the battery, it is going to keep the alternator's output at minimum (12.3 volts) - just enough to keep the battery charged, plus enough to run the systems of the car.

When this unit overloads for what ever reason, many of you electrical components can be damage, IE: Brain, Alternator, Sensors ETC

2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr
Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell
auex 
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Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 4:51 PM / IP Logged  
Not to get too far into this but the part about minimum voltage is wrong. That won't charge a battery for shhh. If this came from a master tech then I wouldn't listen to anything else he says because that is pretty basic.
Dealership=full of shhh.
It sounds more like your alt's voltage regulator went bad and spiked the ecu.
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skoldspuppy 
Silver - Posts: 342
Silver spacespace
Joined: July 11, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 7:37 PM / IP Logged  

auex wrote:
Not to get too far into this but the part about minimum voltage is wrong. That won't charge a battery for shhh. If this came from a master tech then I wouldn't listen to anything else he says because that is pretty basic.
Dealership=full of shhh.
It sounds more like your alt's voltage regulator went bad and spiked the ecu.

Id like to believe that

but I had talked to other Import tuner shops that say the same as the dealership for the newer civics
Im going to go and talk with some shops in south Miami and if they tell me the same thing, then I need to realy find an alternative solution, maybe tapping right after the fuse box as thats where the ELD is located

Thanks for the input

2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr
Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell
fastone 
Copper - Posts: 83
Copper spacespace
Joined: January 01, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 9:15 PM / IP Logged  
I think I'm gonna agree with auex. Somebody's is full of sh**. The computer should do whatever it needs to keep the battery charged, regardless of current load. It seems kind of ridiculous to try to charge the battery based on the current load. If you have an older weaker battery it won't know that without monitoring voltage. That is the basis for recharging a battery. Nothing to do with current load. Also you don't vary the voltage to regulate charging, you regulate the current. The voltage regulator is designed to keep the voltage as constant as possible.
Famous last words: Hey man, what's this wire do?
OhioMike1101 
Silver - Posts: 343
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Joined: August 22, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 9:48 PM / IP Logged  

http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/563904/1

and there are hundreds more of 2004 civics with 1000 watt + systems on that site.  Maybe somebody should tell all of them that it can't be done.

NowYaKnow 
Gold - Posts: 1,217
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Joined: December 18, 2002
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 10:15 PM / IP Logged  
Not sure how accurate this will be on the 04's, but feel free to test it out and post your findings.
Put your volt meter on the battery with the vehicle OFF and note the reading.
Start the car and let it idle 30 seconds or so, and note the reading.
Continue to let the car idle, but turn the headlights on, and note the reading.
With the car off, you should see about 12.6 volts or so. At idle, if the car is in low charge mode it would not read much above 12.6. At idle with the headlights on, it should go to normal charge mode and go up to 14 - 14.5 volts or so.
If that works, then you could get away with just turning on your headlights whenever you drive to have the alternator at full charge. You could also fool the sensor pretty easily by sending the correct voltage to it I would think.
Mike
skoldspuppy 
Silver - Posts: 342
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Joined: July 11, 2004
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Posted: May 11, 2005 at 10:16 PM / IP Logged  
OhioMike1101 wrote:
http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/563904/1

and there are hundreds more of 2004 civics with 1000 watt + systems on that site.  Maybe somebody should tell all of them that it can't be done.

I know it can be done, I ran 1500 Watts for 6 months for a HO alt, now its all crashed down and we cant figure out if it was really the ELD or a faulty Voltage Regulator

But right now I have explict orders from the wife not to spend any money on a HO alt again, thats why Im looking for an alternative solution or Im just going to rip everything out a put it on ebay

I dont have many options, my B@llz are tied

2004 Honda Civic Ex 4Dr
Kenwood DDX-7015/W Nav
4 Fosgate T152C
Hifonics Brutus BX1500D
RE XXX 12 in a 4 Cube Snail Shell
auex 
Platinum - Posts: 5,041
Platinum spaceThis member has made a donation to the12volt.com. Click here for more info.spacespace
Joined: December 23, 2002
Location: Arizona, United States
Posted: May 11, 2005 at 10:16 PM / IP Logged  
I'll stop at one of the Honda dealer's I work with and ask the service director what he thinks. By the way, if your sound system was at fault then your warranty wouldn't have covered it, another indicator why I believe the dealer is full of shhh.
Certified Security Specialist
Always check info with a digital multimeter.
I promise to be good.
Tell Darwin I sent you.
I've been sick lately, sorry I won't be on much.
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