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Upgrade on new internals. Suggestions?


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dwarren 
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Posted: June 23, 2005 at 8:24 PM / IP Logged  
I question EVERYTHING................................................................................... ok.
auex 
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dwarren wrote:
I question EVERYTHING................................................................................... ok.
So does poorman!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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DYohn 
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Posted: June 23, 2005 at 9:19 PM / IP Logged  

jeffchilcott wrote:
sounds good.     I was flipping through the parts express catalog and thought wow I would love to buy some of the morel home audio stuff.   anyone know if morel is sold online anywhere. there are no dealers in the area

Morel speakers kill, in my opinion.  I use their tweeters in almost all my home theatre designs.  Their car audio stuff is really nice, if a bit pricey.  If you want accuracy and high power handling, Morel is near the top of the heap.  Phoenix Gold Elite systems use Morel speakers.

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haemphyst 
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Posted: June 23, 2005 at 10:58 PM / IP Logged  
Poormanq45 wrote:
dwarren wrote:
If you really want to go the right way, look in to a high quality three way system
NO
For the best sound quality ALWAYS try to have as few crossover points as possible.
I would recommend piecing together your own drivers. For the tweeter use a pro audio compression driver with a "small" horn crossing it over at ~6khz~8khz. Then find a nice mid-range that can play from ~120hz through 10khz with a relatively flat response. Crossover the mid range over just above the point that the horn response begins to fall off. Use a ~12dB slope for the mid and a 18dB slope when crossing over the horn. Then look into a descent quality sub. That will total to a three way system. Dwarren's suggestion totaled to a 4-way system.
Remember, crossovers are BAD
No, *HORNS* are bad... Dynamic drivers with a properly designed crossover will ALWAYS sound better, present a flatter frequency response to an RTA, exhibit less lobing, and in MOST cases, be preferred by those that know what they are listening to.
In the car, where you are generally WAY off axis, more drivers is usually a mandate, to improve the sound power throughout the listening area, and therefore, crossovers cannot be bad - they are necessary. I did say "properly designed". While it is true that a poorly designed crossover IS bad, if done correctly, there is no way they can be bad...
If you are really worried about passive crossovers, go active... and digital...
It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."
Poormanq45 
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Posted: June 23, 2005 at 11:06 PM / IP Logged  
I question everything.
A three way system is significantly more complicated to make sound good rather than a two way system. Not only are you dealing with vastly different sensitivities, you also have to deal with acoustic delay, phase, complex impedance curves, tonality, lobing, and other issues with each new driver you introduce
When using multiple drivers it is advantageous to use one driver for the critical operating range, about 500Hz to 6kHz. By relegating the negative affects of crossover and multiple driver balancing to the range outside our ear's most sensitive frequency area vastly improves the sound we hear.
Poormanq45 
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Posted: June 23, 2005 at 11:14 PM / IP Logged  
ham wrote:
No, *HORNS* are bad... Dynamic drivers with a properly designed crossover will ALWAYS sound better, present a flatter frequency response to an RTA, exhibit less lobing, and in MOST cases, be preferred by those that know what they are listening to.
EEK! Misinformation.
The THD of a good 2" throat high range compression driver on a properly engineered exponential horn is so low compared to any direct radiator for the same SPL. The excursion at all volume levels is extremely small even when operating at/near the horn cutoff.
As for the dispersion. A 90 x 15/30 lateral x vertical would give you FULL coverage.
DYohn 
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Posted: June 24, 2005 at 10:18 AM / IP Logged  

Poormanq45 wrote:
I question everything.

Which can get annoying sometimes, my friend!

Poormanq45 wrote:
A three way system is significantly more complicated to make sound good rather than a two way system. Not only are you dealing with vastly different sensitivities, you also have to deal with acoustic delay, phase, complex impedance curves, tonality, lobing, and other issues with each new driver you introduce
When using multiple drivers it is advantageous to use one driver for the critical operating range, about 500Hz to 6kHz. By relegating the negative affects of crossover and multiple driver balancing to the range outside our ear's most sensitive frequency area vastly improves the sound we hear.

The above can be true for a beginner or someone who really doesn't know what they're doing.  But for a person experienced in loudspeaker design, the oposite is true and makes up the most fun part of the process.  Using multiple drivers solves way more problems than it creates, as you can "cover" for resonances and poor response bands (every speaker has these) by properly designing the crossover and handing off to a driver better able to handle the troublesome band, and by taking advantage of multiple drivers in the same band increasing efficiency in that band.  Easier than using multiple notch filters and pads.  And if someone building a system does not understand how to deal with differing sensitivities, phase changes, impedence, lobing, or acoustic time alignment, then that person should not be designing the crossover.  This is my experience and my opinion, and there are those who will disagree, especially the advocates of the mythical "single-full-range-driver."  I have yet to hear one that I can accept as "hi fi," however.

As to horns in general, I think they sound great in a long-throw outdoor sound reinforcement system.  I hate them for stereo (yes even Klipsch) and I especially think they are the wrong solution in a car.  But again, that's just my opinion.

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Poormanq45 
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Posted: June 24, 2005 at 1:25 PM / IP Logged  
I mostly agree with you, when done properly you can't even tell that there is a crossover in the system(which is the goal), BUT in my experience I would have to say that at least 50% of the premade component set's crossovers are acceptable to good, I have yet to find one that is AWESOME.
I have found few more systems that use only two drivers to cover the 50~20khz range that sound awesome, unfortunately these were in home applications where size is not an issue.
About the horns not being appropriate for cars: I mostly agree with this, but you know, multiple subwoofers arn't appropriate in cars either. So if you want your mids/highs to match your lows you almost have to go with horns. Besides: You have to love the fact that you can feed a compression driver 10w RMS and get insanely loud volumes. I have yet to find a cone/dome driver that even compares.
ANyway, I think this just comes down to different opinions.
About the single driver for the whole range. Multiple companies have already made AWESOME full range drivers. That's not a problem. The problem is preventing doppler distortion/modulation at reference volumes, which isn't physically possible. So for "average" listening, ~80~85dB, a single full range driver will sound awesome. Bose used to use single full range drivers in their car systems. They sound great at low volumes, but at higher volumes they experience horrible compression
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