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JBL Amp vs JL Amp


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drvnbysound 
Silver - Posts: 289
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Joined: May 06, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2006 at 9:42 AM / IP Logged  
What I think is most odd, is that you are using some of the largest MTX subs (argueably some of the best on the market), and didnt even consider using matching MTX amplifiers??
All biasing aside, unless you have a ton of current at your disposal (ie. H.O. alternator and multiple batteries), your amplifiers are never going to see the current needed to create 1000+W RMS of power. If your stock alternator is rated to output 70A, at 13.8V that gives you a TOTAL of 966W for your entire CAR! Once you have your lights on, AC, etc, that number will be split into each of these loads and decrease the possible power output of your amplifier.
As far as JL vs. JBL, both make great amplifiers. However you will get varying responses because they do use different technologies and are obviously very different companies.
JL is largely respected because of their past and current success in the SQ/SPL lanes. Their products put up numbers and have helped probably thousands of consumers bring home trophies. After doing so, many following customers respect what they have achieved and continue to purchase their products. Not that they dont make great products, because they do, but at times it almost seems like a status thing.. "I HAVE JL."
JBL (actually Harmon International) is a FAR LARGER company, and builds some of the HIGHEST END home and professional audio equipment.   JBL, for whatever reason has never gotten that status. (I feel they have the products to do so (A6000GTI and W15GTI), but its the lack of LARGE customer base that spends $$$$$ buying their products and running to the lanes with them.)
... I guess I didnt do much for answering your question, but maybe some of this information will be considered and atleast its out there to be known. Good luck with your system!
Paradigm 
Silver - Posts: 284
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Joined: November 25, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2006 at 9:48 AM / IP Logged  

And now, after having done a little research on the Basic Car Audio Electronics website and a few other places, here is what I have found:

Using values of 4AWG wire, 20 ft. run of wire, at 1000W, with 75% eff. (for a class D amp), and a system voltage of 13.8, I got a voltage drop of .483 volts. IF I've entered the info correctly and IF I understand this calculator to depict what ragoal12 is getting at, that seems rather negligible to me. Even using a value of 12 volts for system voltage, it gives a message that says, "There will be more than a 1/2 volt drop in your power wire at full power. Use a larger gauge wire." The 1000/1 specifically asks that the user use 4AWG wire and a 100A fuse on the line. Using a shorter wire run also reduces the voltage drop.

So, can someone enlighten me some more? I'm sure I'm missing something here...

VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2
ragoal12 
Copper - Posts: 135
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Joined: July 23, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2006 at 10:35 PM / IP Logged  

paradigm does that have anything to do with the question that was originally asked??? cause ur attempt at flaming me isn't working...  chill out man.. i was simply saying that both voltage hungry and power hungry r commonly referred to as the same thing...

now u say that u have 1000/1 do u run 4 AWG wire? because the systems that i've dealt with originally had it and there was considerable amout more voltage drop... like 2 or 3 volts.... and its occured in more than one system

S.O.B custsoms.. South Omaha, Nebraska
drvnbysound 
Silver - Posts: 289
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Joined: May 06, 2002
Location: United States
Posted: January 23, 2006 at 11:56 PM / IP Logged  
Unless you are using some really horrid material as a conductor (ie. wire) you should not be able to accurately measure any voltage drop at the load connection due to the size of wire used. However, water (current) will flow faster through a 2" pipe, than it will a straw. Current and voltage ARE DIFFERENT.
I am unsure of who "commonly refers" to power and voltage hungry as the same thing, but I can certainly state they are not engineers because they are different things.
A load (amplifier + subwoofer) may require more current than a given source (battery + alternator) is capable of supplying, which will cause a voltage drop to occur.   
However, I assume by "power hungry" you are refering to the amplifiers "need" for current, and the charging systems inability to provide the required amount resulting in voltage drops. If so, this case occurs because the amount of amplification desired in a vehicle not prepared or capable of supplying the amplifier with enough current to then supply the subwoofer the power it draws.
I would assume, by "voltage hungry" you are referring to the voltage drop due to the insufficient source. As the voltage drop increases, an amplifier is deemed more "voltage hungry"?
All of this can be settled by simple ohms law (funny how many people forget, that principles of electronics were developed MANY years ago and are still and will remain applicapable in todays devices). Rule to remember... POWER IN = POWER OUT - POWER LOSSES!! The amount of power OUT from your amplifier, is determined by the amount of power (voltage and current) that it is given (the power from the battery and alternator minus the power the car itself uses). Furthermore, Power = Voltage * Current. The available power out of your amplifier is determined by the voltage and current input. If you test the voltage of your battery while the car is running, (ie. 13.8V) and know that your vehicles alternator is rated at (100Amperes), the MAXIMUM RMS power output of your amplifier is 1380W. This value is valid before any current losses are considered (lights, AC, etc.) If your headlights bulbs are rated at 40W each, this results in (I=40W/13.8V = 3A draw per bulb), and so on with each load in the car. If you were able to successfully find the current draw of your vehicle's average current consumption, subtract it from the current output of the alternator, this will leave you with the reserve or additional current available to supply additional loads (ie. If you have 20A of reserve current @ 13.8V, results in 276W RMS).
These values assume 100% efficiency of your amplifiers,(ie. if your vehicle has 20A reserve at 13.8V, and your amp is 87% efficient, you will actually get about 240W RMS output to your subwoofer) and do not account for peak current supplies (as may be available from your battery).
When you connect (5) 1200W RMS amps to a car that has 20A of reserve current, you will still only be capable of an output of 276W RMS.
ANALOGY: You turn your sink faucet on all the way and it takes 20 seconds for your sink to fill up. If you split the output of the faucet into 5 hoses all draining into the sink, how long will it take the sink to fill up? If you answer 20 seconds, you are getting the idea. The water that runs out of all the hoses combined will still remain the same, because of restraints of water pressure at the supply, and piping sizes in the house (ie. all source issues).
Hopefully someone is paying attention! :-D
Paradigm 
Silver - Posts: 284
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Joined: November 25, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 24, 2006 at 8:55 AM / IP Logged  
ragoal12 wrote:

paradigm does that have anything to do with the question that was originally asked??? cause ur attempt at flaming me isn't working...  chill out man.. i was simply saying that both voltage hungry and power hungry r commonly referred to as the same thing...

now u say that u have 1000/1 do u run 4 AWG wire? because the systems that i've dealt with originally had it and there was considerable amout more voltage drop... like 2 or 3 volts.... and its occured in more than one system

Maybe in your neck of the woods this is true. However, I've never heard of this from anyone else on this board or otherwise, and I would hazard a guess as to say that voltage hungry and power hungry are, in fact, NOT the same thing. Again, unless someone can tell me (and prove) otherwise, I will accept this as fact. I found this on another forum, "Remember that power is voltage x amperage, and the amperage depends on the impedance. If the impedance is high, it takes more voltage to double the power than if the impedance is low, because less current flows at low impedance with the same voltage." Just thought I'd throw that in there for whatever reason.

Yes, I do have a 1000/1 (as shown in my sig), and yes, I do run a 4AWG wire from the distro block to the amp. My main wire is 1/0AWG. Probably overkill, but it does the trick and I know that I am better safe than sorry. And as I pointed out, if you calculate voltage drop, the results are negligible. Are these real world numbers? Probably not, since other factors are not accounted for in the calculations. But the audio system, by itself, should match pretty close to the calcs.

Alternators are rated in amperes. When someone asks the question whether they need a high output alternator, almost every single time, the answer will be based upon how many amps are required to operate the system adequately and what amp rating the alt should have. NOT on what the voltage drop will be or how voltage hungry the system is.

This may, in fact, be a good side discussion to the original poster's question, as he may need to account for some of these things. A little extra knowledge never hurts JBL Amp vs JL Amp - Page 4 -- posted image.. But I caution that knowledge presented should be correct, and if not, someone should have the courage to set things right. And there are a number of us that will do just that.

Paradigm

wrote:

Anyway, my intent of posting the first time was...just to try to make sure the info being presented was correct.

My guess is you don't like to be corrected. Sorry, I just was trying to understand what you were saying. I'm calm, my heart rate hasn't risen, and the world is still here, with me and you in it. Let's try to get along, shall we? JBL Amp vs JL Amp - Page 4 -- posted image.

VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2
stevdart 
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Joined: January 24, 2004
Location: Pennsylvania, United States
Posted: January 24, 2006 at 11:49 AM / IP Logged  

Just for the sake of public service, what follows is basically all that this thread's author is asking.  Maybe it can get back on track now.

image wrote:
If you were running MTX 9500's.. Specs
Which amp would you chose?
2 JBL 1200.1's?? Specs
or
1 JL AUDIO 1000/1??? Specs
Gimme some good feedback guys on watcha think please.

..........Well i guess i will just stick with the 2 JBL 1200.1's. Does anyone have any other reccomendations besides the JL 100/1?

Now I may be mistaken, but I don't think he meant an in-depth review of Ohm's Law and such related matters when he asked "Gimme some good feedback guys on watcha think please."

JBL Amp vs JL Amp - Page 4 -- posted image.

Build the box so that it performs well in the worst case scenario and, in return, it will reward you at all times.
Paradigm 
Silver - Posts: 284
Silver spacespace
Joined: November 25, 2003
Location: United States
Posted: January 24, 2006 at 12:38 PM / IP Logged  

Not back on topic!!! Please!!!!

I only have experience with the JL Audio 1000/1, so I can only give my opinion on it, along with what I have already posted. It is a fantastic amp, but it will cost you quite a bit, even if you manage to find it at a discount from the Internet or from a dealer. I paid about $750 new from an authorized dealer. I have no complaints - it is probably more amp (other than wattage) than I will ever need. JBL Amp vs JL Amp - Page 4 -- posted image.

VEHICLE: 2002 GMC Sonoma ZR2
Alpine CDA-7940
AudioControl EQT x2
JL Audio 1000/1
JL Audio 10W6 (originals) x3
Kicker ZR120
Kicker ZR460
Polk GXR-6 x4
Polk GXR-4 x2
downstarinc 
Copper - Posts: 119
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Joined: October 22, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: January 24, 2006 at 11:52 PM / IP Logged  
without gettin all mecp on you, i would have to say that the jl amp has many +'s to it, regulated power supply, 11-14v same watts, 1.5-4 ohm 1000watts,plus they do put out more than 1000watts(ive got about 1200). they havent given me any problems except for ringing ears. i think this amp is overall a better amp. the jl amp is a much nicer looking amp. so to answer your question, go with the jl amp.
jl audio..nuff said
ragoal12 
Copper - Posts: 135
Copper spacespace
Joined: July 23, 2005
Location: United States
Posted: January 25, 2006 at 12:00 AM / IP Logged  
well thank you for correcting me guys but as drvnbysound stated either way the source is ineffiecent... and this has been a common thing when using jl 1000/1 amps... so now that you guys gave me a lecture that i had about 3 years ago in electrical class it was a great refresher!!!!! i think i may have had to much mechanical engineering classes the last few semesters... but remember  sometimes things in the real world don't act the same compared to how they are modeled from an engineering stand point... that is why i stated that there probably would be a bigger voltage drop than .5 volts is all...
S.O.B custsoms.. South Omaha, Nebraska
tcss 
Silver - Posts: 1,623
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Joined: June 07, 2004
Location: United States
Posted: January 25, 2006 at 11:28 AM / IP Logged  
Here's an idea, grab an Alpine M-1005, switch the display to voltage, wind it up and see what the drop is in voltage. Let me know who is right.
There is no such thing as free installation!
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