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so basically because the tweeter is producing max sound @ Fs you want to keep it higher than that to prevent damage to the actual driver?

saturnsubohio wrote: so basically because the tweeter is producing max sound @ Fs you want to keep it higher than that to prevent damage to the actual driver?

  

No, a speaker does not produce "max sound" at Fs.  It is at resonance at Fs, the point where the frequency exactly balances the mechanical components of the motor system.  The impedance goes to max and the output goes down and can become erratic.  You can damage a tweeter and many mids by operating at or below Fs since almost all the energy will go into heat build-up in the voice coil and none (or very little) of it goes into producing sound.

Woofers are harder to damage at Fs, and indeed I used to work for a company that designed subwoofers to operate below Fs intentionally.

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hmm good info there... thanks i guess i didnt remember that.. but now that i've read it again from you i remember reading the description of Fs thanks.. i'll gather some more info and resurrect this thread at a later date.. PS: what company did you work for DYohn

bringing this back from a while ago, The time has come to purchase, I've decided on the following aspects (until you guys say they are garbage) MidBass Woofer - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=295-308&ctab=3#Tabs Tweeter - http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=277-025 -OR- http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=277-060 Crossover stuff will look something like this Mid crossed passively @ 2400ish Hz, Tweet will take over from there. with a HPF from the HeadUnit (Pioneer 680MP Premier) overlaying the Passive LPF on the Mid @ 80 Hz Im not sure which Cap's to use and which inductors tho. is there a huge difference between a 4 dollar capacitor and a 1.50 dollar cap? Let me know what you guys think or suggest, Car will be the 97 SC2 Saturn in my signature. Doors will be deadened with BrownBread/Dynamat -OR- I have those "cups" that fit under the woofer to protect from water i could deaden those and use those? Thanks in advance guys2006 WRX STI

Electrical Engineer

Ohio University Alumni

Capacitors, YES, absolutely! Inductors, not quite so much, but there are things you will still want to keep in mind when choosing either component... Caps are better chosen if you stick with poly types - either styrene or ethylene types, or something equally fast. "The Purple Caps", or "The Yellow Caps" is what we call them (colloquially) in my audio circle. Solen makes the best ones IMO. Electrolytics of any sort should NEVER be used in any audio circuit AFAIAC. They are good for AC ripple filtering, and nothing else... Quality caps WILL make a difference in the quality of your crossover, and they are more stable at temperature, and do not suffer value drift over time. Resistors should all be carbon-pile, or NON wire-wound types. Those types of resistors will add absolutely minimal inductance to the circuit, and your other component values can be more accurate in their function, once implemented... Inductors. Well, MOST IMPORTANTLY, avoid iron-core. Those will be smaller, but they are not linear in their response curves, and their distortions are unacceptable to me. Choose inductors with the LARGEST wire you can find, to avoid excess DCR in your circuit. I like copper foil inductors as well... larger, but VERY linear in their response, and lower distortion levels. Parts Express sells Jantzen caps and coils, a decent brand name. Look up the name in their search function. Your topology will also make a difference. If you have two inductors close to one another (less than, say 3 to 4 inches), make certain they are NOT on the same physical plane. Make certain that you align them on the X Y and Z planes. This will prevent hysteresis interaction between them. Some people will tell you it won't make a difference, but it does.It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

haemphyst wrote: Capacitors, YES, absolutely! Inductors, not quite so much, but there are things you will still want to keep in mind when choosing either component... Caps are better chosen if you stick with poly types - either styrene or ethylene types, or something equally fast. "The Purple Caps", or "The Yellow Caps" is what we call them (colloquially) in my audio circle. Solen makes the best ones IMO. Electrolytics of any sort should NEVER be used in any audio circuit AFAIAC. They are good for AC ripple filtering, and nothing else... Quality caps WILL make a difference in the quality of your crossover, and they are more stable at temperature, and do not suffer value drift over time. Resistors should all be carbon-pile, or NON wire-wound types. Those types of resistors will add absolutely minimal inductance to the circuit, and your other component values can be more accurate in their function, once implemented... Inductors. Well, MOST IMPORTANTLY, avoid iron-core. Those will be smaller, but they are not linear in their response curves, and their distortions are unacceptable to me. Choose inductors with the LARGEST wire you can find, to avoid excess DCR in your circuit. I like copper foil inductors as well... larger, but VERY linear in their response, and lower distortion levels. Parts Express sells Jantzen caps and coils, a decent brand name. Look up the name in their search function. Your topology will also make a difference. If you have two inductors close to one another (less than, say 3 to 4 inches), make certain they are NOT on the same physical plane. Make certain that you align them on the X Y and Z planes. This will prevent hysteresis interaction between them. Some people will tell you it won't make a difference, but it does.

Okay so stick with styrene or etylene caps, all my resistors would be carbon based resistors as thats what i have access to. now for the inductors, the topology as you refer to it is in reference to mutual inductance, where the current passed through one inductor then affects the other near by inductors? i believe that is what your talking about, this would be crucial when actually placing components on a PCB correct? obviously partsexpress and morel would be good places to look correct? how do those components look? pretty safe and sound? im thinking i may end up getting a cheap Alpine amp @ 60w x 2 @ 2 ohms to put under the seat for some clean power. Thanks again Guys2006 WRX STI

Electrical Engineer

Ohio University Alumni

Yep... any inductor should be at 90 degrees (on at lease one of the planes, anyway) to any other inductor. It CAN'T interfere with the neighboring device that way. Yes, the coupling will be MOST critical if mounted on a PC board, simply because of their proximities to one another. Parts express is a good company to deal with, I've always had good luck there. Morel is certainly (next to, in no particular order, Dynaudio, ScanSpeak, Vifa, Seas, Skaaning, Raven, and now lately Tang-Band...) in the list of my favorite drivers on the planet - and the 33 is perhaps my favorite tweeter, ever! It's price/performance ratio is quite high... Good choice. Not having much experience with the whole Dayton line, I can't speak for the mid-woofer you chose, but if DYohn likes it, I'll agree, it's probably a decent driver. He and I see largely eye-to-eye on drivers and their sound. BTW, did you consider the Adire Extremis? Difficult to get right now, (I think... are they still difficult to get, Steven?) a REALLY nice mid-woofer, and worth the money spent on them! Look at those before you concrete your system with the Dayton...It all reminds me of something that Molière once said to Guy de Maupassant at a café in Vienna: "That's nice. You should write it down."

well to be honest the Dayton woofer is the biggest headache i have so far, as im concerned about the mounting depth as DYohn has mentioned earlier in this thread. however i cant seem to find a woofer that has a similar "flat" response curve within the "Lower" price range of 40 dollars or less. my budget is around 200 dollars US with this set, as it stands right now. the tweeters seem like a good choice and the response plus Fs @ 1000Hz seems like it should work just fine crossed @ 2400Hz. but the woofer is tough, the doors arent really "shallow" but they are Plastic coated doors. Haemphyst i'm more than open to any other suggestions that you have regarding woofers, i tried to look @ Adire Extremis but i found them @ one place and they were 100Dollars a speaker which is a tad out of my beginners price range. 2006 WRX STI

Electrical Engineer

Ohio University Alumni