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Fleece or Cotton?


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xlt_explorer 
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Posted: June 21, 2006 at 11:44 PM / IP Logged  
ok so i experimented using fleece for my fiberglass work today, i found that it soaked up about 4 times the resin. where as cotton i.e t shirt material use a very small amount of resin.  is it better to use that extra resin and go with fleece  or  is it better to use cotton and then layer on fiberglass mat on top of it for extra strength.
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aceracer24 
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Posted: June 21, 2006 at 11:59 PM / IP Logged  
My understanding is that the thicker fleece will be stronger on the first soaking versus a t-shirt but yes thick fleese will use a ton more resin. Someone one here also mentioned using panty hose /shrug not tried that yet :)I'd say use the fleece where you need more strnegth and t-shirt type for smaller stuff.
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Tegpilot 
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Posted: June 22, 2006 at 12:18 AM / IP Logged  

what type of job are you doing???  will it be finished and seen? 

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Melted Fabric 
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Posted: June 22, 2006 at 10:11 AM / IP Logged  
Yea, I would experiment.  Fleece seems to be the number absorber of resin.  I'd also recommend hitting up a fabric store and trying out different materials and see which one serves your purpose best for the given project.  I would not use regular carpet, just incase you are thinking outside the box.
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sawhit4 
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Posted: June 29, 2006 at 11:32 PM / IP Logged  
heres a good way to put it.  If you're making a sub box, or an interior piece that will have pressure applied to it, then you should go with fleece, because it will give you a stronger first layer, but you shoud always add fiberglass mat to it.  Resin soaked fleece is brittle alone, the fiberglass mat will increase its strength tremendously.  Add a few layers, the stuff is cheap and pretty easy to apply.  Why not add the extra security of more layers than necessary?  But smaller projects that wont have large loads applied and are fairly detailed could benifit from using a t shirt like material.   With small tight contours, the fleece might have trouble stretching and wont look as good. 
crazyoldcougar 
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Posted: June 30, 2006 at 8:47 PM / IP Logged  

OKAY...seriously how many times does this have to be said....

using fleece is ridiculous...waste of money...

there are only two reasons someone builds a fiberglass box, 1. cool shapes, 2. less wieght...

first of all...a soaked piece of fleece has no strength at all...what because it is a quater inch thick and soaked up half a gallon of resin it is strong...think again...a fiberglass piece's strength comes from multiple layers of mat not gallons of resin...all that resin does is add weight and brittleness to the project...

you can take a cured piece of fleece and hit it with a hammer..it will punch a hole right through it not to mention crack the crap out of it...now take a piece of quarter inch fiberglass that has been made of 6 of 7 layers of mat and do the samethingnot only does it weigh a pound or two less (depending on the size of the piece it could be a considerable difference)...no crakcs no holes...most likely no blemish...

i wish people would understand that the whole strecthing "fleece" is just a way to obtain a fluid shape for your project, fleece has nothing to do with the strength of the project what-so-ever...it is strickly a way of getting a shape...it doesnt matter what faric you use as long as it will soak resin and not fall apart...i suggest panty hose for everything..it streches like crazy...requires next to no glue to hold it in place, you dont have to pull it stupid tight like you do fleece...and it is ten times thinner and ten times lighter...once it is cured it provides you with exactly what you wanted and needed a  relatively hard curvy surface....

to each his onw i suppose i prefer to save money  weight and time when i build my boxes...

Fiberglass Guru.
sawhit4 
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Posted: June 30, 2006 at 11:40 PM / IP Logged  

yeah like nouseforaname said, this thread isn't about the strength of resin soaked fleece over resin soaked cotton.  Its about xlt_explorer trying to figure out whats the difference between the two and what will work best for him.  Any kind of sub box or interior piece i work on will be fleeced, because i like the fact that its fairly strong after the resin has cured and i can easily move it in and out of the car without worrying about knocking a hole in it or cracking it ( i dont have a whole lot of falling hammers in my car) The bottom line is that resin soaked fleece is stronger than resin soaked cotton, but both need to be reinforced with fiberglass mat if they will form any structural piece.  And like i said earlier, i would use cotton for something that wasn't structural and wasn't getting a layer of mat, where as i would use fleece for a sub box. 

sawhit4 
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Posted: June 30, 2006 at 11:43 PM / IP Logged  
On and one more thing, the main purpose of fleece is to get the correct shape you're after, like crazyoldcougar said, but you also need a sturdy first layer to apply mat to.  I've never tried panty hose, but i cant see it holding in much resin at all.  It seems to me that it would have trouble supporting the weight of resin soaked mat when you started to fiberglass the box, but like i said i've never tried it. 
crazyoldcougar 
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Posted: July 06, 2006 at 10:55 PM / IP Logged  
nouseforaname wrote:

you can also hit fiberglass mat with a hammer and knock a hole in it. fleece is a good first layer to use to form because of its stretchability. then you must layer mat to add strength. you can't stretch mat over a box to get a shape as you mentioned crazyoldcougar, so you are kinda disputing yourself. you have to start somewhere when getting a shape, which is the point of this whole thread i beleive, and fleece is better than cotton when it comes to that with box building. now small interior panels and what not, cotton is fine. no need to mat it or use fleece, unless its gonna get kicked or something like that. and if you've ever went to walmart in the baby section and looked at the fleece baby blankets, you'll see fleece isn't very hight at all.

oh yeah, and pantyhose? not my first choice for a box, buy hey, what ever floats your boat.

i never said anywhere to stretch mat over the box!...that is clearly impossible..and good luck getting a hammer to go through a 1/4 inch of properly laid fiberglass espcially if it is curved...

first fleece ISNT "that" stretchable...there is plently of far more stretchy materials out there... fleece is fine to use if you want to completely nulify the fact you are building a lightweight fiberglass box.  Since you dont know...(most) fiberglass resin is a polyester based liquid, therefore a polyester based fabric is going to be best suited to applications....ALL fabrics will absorb resin...it is a liquid..it is like spilling water on it...if it will soak up water it will soak up resin... but once again the point of a fiberglass box is organic shapes and LIGHTWEIGHT....trust me the thinner and lighter the material used for stretching the better, because NOTHING soaked in resin, unless it is specifically designed for it will have ANY strength...so you are best to use the absolute thinnest and lightest material and spend your time and money adding fiberglass rather then gallons of resin to materials that have no strength..7 to 10 lyers of mat will be no stronger with fleece under it then it would be with panty hose under it...

i have seen far too many people lay up a 1/4 inch fleece and one or two layers of mat and call it a box...i guess that is fine if you want a heavy, weak, expensive, crappy sounding box..

fleece seems to be the "in" thing for box's, everyone has seen it on alpine's site and thinks that is the way to go....LOL it is funny....cars built strictly for show...that cant even be driven (legally) have become the status-quo for box building...fleece is cheap and strong enough for a show.... i am willing to bet the actuall custom installs done for customers are done differently, and they definately dont show everything on the website...still everyone swears by fleece having tried few other more suitable materials

and if your concerned about the strength of the pantyhose..dont be.. take your time, do the job right and start with one layer of mat over it first, after that has cured it will most likely be just as strong as your 1/4 of fleece but at one tenth the weight and cost of resin used...LOL i could build a incredibly solid box out of pantyhose mat and with the same amount or less resin as you would use just to soak your fleece.  if you charge your customers out the butt for resin then all the power to you, i just hope they arent dissapointed with a 50-75 pound fiberglass box that could have been 25 pounds...

and one other thing...if you build any fiberglass project..the point is to actually put fiberglass in it...cotton panels soaked in resin will crack regardless of how much filler and resin you put on it, and regarless if they get kicked or not...you have to remember that temperature greatly affects a products performance hot and cold (100* to AC) or freeze thaw will crack the crap out of your non-matted fiberglass projects. so please dont give out advice like that to someone..

there again cotton can be used, is it the best, not likely, but like i said, ANY fabric will absorb resin, some will completely fall appart, most will not..look for the cheapest lightest thinest most stretchy (polyester) based fabric you can find that will be your best fabric...what do you know that is pantyhose...and stay away from spandex materials...the rubber doesnt hold well against the resin and that material doesnt cure all that well either...

Fiberglass Guru.
crazyoldcougar 
Copper - Posts: 185
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Joined: March 03, 2006
Location: Canada
Posted: July 06, 2006 at 11:01 PM / IP Logged  

sawhit4 wrote:
On and one more thing, the main purpose of fleece is to get the correct shape you're after, like crazyoldcougar said, but you also need a sturdy first layer to apply mat to.  I've never tried panty hose, but i cant see it holding in much resin at all.  It seems to me that it would have trouble supporting the weight of resin soaked mat when you started to fiberglass the box, but like i said i've never tried it. 

LOL there is no reason what so ever to ever soak your mat in resin.....a simple brushed on stroke or two of resin...add your mat to it, squeeze out the excess resin from your brush then begin to poke the piece of mat in place...stronger, lighter, less expensive and less messy then soaking the mat with resin...once the first layer of mat has cured there will be no strength issues at all...you could apply later layers with a roller if you so chose...i do it all the time...well i never use a roller cause the "brush and poke" method pretty much eliminates excess resin and air bubbles...

Fiberglass Guru.
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