2nd Starter Wire in Nissans Does What?

I just belted out a letter to Nissan of North America:

Re: Technical question for Nissan Engineering

To Whom It May Concern:

I am an installer of remote starters and car alarms in the Chicago suburban area.  Myself and several of my colleagues (as well as many more internet forum go-ers on < >www.the12volt.com) are very interested to know what the SECOND STARTER wire specifically does when it is energized on routine car starts.  We are also very interested to know why it must be energized separately with a separate wire.  Most of the makes/models we install remote starters in have only one starter wire.  This is a source of much curiosity because when an installer of remote starters neglects to connect the second starter wire to a 12volt supply, the vehicle (i.e. in this case, the Nissan vehicle) does not start appropriately.  Please reply at your convenience, we appreciate any and all information you are willing to share.  Thank you.

Sorry about the previous post -- basically i sent a letter to Nissan asking about the second starter wire -- i'll keep y'all updated as to the result.

Best of luck. I don't think you are aware that the manufacturers generally hate us (installers) and treat us like some kind of enemy. If it was up to them they would void the warranty on every vehicle we even looked at..well they have tried but thankfully the industry fought this and won..at least somewhat, in other words the warranty will not be voided unless it is proven the aftermarket device and/or installation caused the problem..or..if the factory/dealer offers the device installed at no charge. (they are  Basically not very installer friendly to say the least). Also I have noticed (as all installers) that over time they have built vehicles to be less and less installer friendly..things like integrating complex vehicle diagnostics to go thru the stereo system, data bus immobilizers...pain in the butt stuff like that.

I would be very surprised if they are of any help whatsoever but worth a shot I supose, you never know...maybe someone cool at nissan will respond with an answer.

Keep us posted, thanks

I think you speak of the Magnuson-Moss Law --

I actually was not aware that they have this disdain for people like us .. i guess it makes sense (sorta, but sorta doesn't) .. but I hope you're right -- i hope someone young and un-tainted by industry will receive that letter kindly and send some sort of explanation.  Though I doubt it too, we'll see and I'll certainly keep you posted.

Thanks

I don't think they make the cars the way they do to make it harder on installers, its all about making the car cheaper.  If you can integrate modules together you save money.

Not all dealerships hate installers, but most do, and the reason is simple.  Most installers are more knowledgable then dealership mechanics when it comes to the electrical system of cars.  The mechanics can pull crap on ordinary owners, but when someone challanges them, and they are obviously wrong, they get upset.

A perfect example is I had a customer that I installed a radio in in their Dodge Stratus.  Months went by and their cruise control quit working.  They took the car to the Dodge dealer and the dealer told them that the radio caused the problem and that car stereo installers had no business working on cars.

So, they bring the car to me.  I pop the hood and immediately notice the vacuum line running to the cruise control actuator was resting on the exhaust manifold, with a hole burnt right through it!  I called the dealership, asked for the tech that they talked with, and identified myself as the car stereo installer who had no business working on cars.  I then explained to him the problem that I found and asked him if he would be able to fix it.

Hmmm.... maybe thats why they hate us!

Agree to a point..but none of us really know for sure why they do certain things..yes it is most likely about saving money..but I am not talking about sticking modules in the radio..it is the complexity that gets me to think there may be other motives.

I was not so much talking about dealerships as I was the factory but believe me..they both hate us..although I do work with some dealerships that are very good to us I still know at the drop of a hat they would blame us for any and everything they could however obviosly unrelated..well this is no news to any experienced installer,  we have all been there..and are there on a daily basis.

But I notice that the factory does very little to cooperate with the aftermarket which is a shame..I am in touch with the CEA to try to come to some terms with the manufaccturers..they are aware that the industry is hurting bad over this...we can only do our part.

Oh and yes..I was talking about the Magnuson-Moss Law, good call peterubers.

Don't you think there is a new trend, with a big thanks to SEMA and other aftermarket industry pushes, towards welcoming aftermarket industry into a working relationship with big names?  Perhaps we're stuck at companys creating their own in-house aftermarket tuners (i.e. AMG, STI, //S, //M, TRD) etc to keep the "warranty" legitimate -- truth be told, it must be very hard to govern the quality of every single aftermarket mod/mobile installer -- you just can't do that .. too many to govern/inspect/evaluate -- not worth the cost.

Sema is another story..I won't get into that but perhaps someone else will.

My issue is this.....the engineers that design these cars..the CEO's..the executive decision makers....does anyone actually believe they are not aware that people like to change the head units..or have a choice to do so??  They are fully aware....and they mock and laugh at the difficulty we have in changing decks on some vehicles...and the thousands that need to be spent customizing...I would love to see that day when things are "standardized"..imagine RCA's from the factory?? or something similar...and not putting starter cicuits in the factory decks...or check engine systems etc....

The reason some vehicles are starting to come with aux inputs.....to hurt us!!!!  No install required...no need to replace the deck. Trust me if something is not done soon the way things are going we will all be working tire machines and mounting spoilers...sounds fun?? not to me. I know..become a stock broker??  that would really suck..but might be a reality.

OK..so at least we could always add an amp sub....right?  they can't take that away...right???? Well read this post I submitted (link at bottom)..I am sure it will be a while before I get a response to fix this...if ever...and the post I left months ago about doing a remote start in 07 Audi A8 and Q7's......still no response...no one on this entire forum or anywhere can help...I blame the manufacturers for this....Ok I'll get off my soapbox...lol  Not really that mad but dissapointed that I may have to leave the indusry I love and become a plumber..Well we are starting to focus on home theatre (not too happy) but I see no other alternative at present to save our store.

https://www.the12volt.com /installbay/forum_posts.asp? tid=91118&KW=master5

I disagree with you with most of what you said, actually.  The actual amount of people looking to modify their car is an etremely small segment.

The amount of people who buy their cars because of their interior looks is much larger.  If a manufacturer can seamlessly integrate the radio controls with other controls and make the cabin look and feel more inviting they of course are going to go that route over the 'aftermarket possibility' route.  I, for one, would much rather have a seamlessly installed radio in my car and sacrifice the aftermarket.  I love the way the radio in my G35 is installed.  To swap it out it'll cost me over $500 for parts from Japan.  Does it sound great?  No.  Can it be improved upon?  Yes.  But, the improvement in sound can't justify the downgrade in looks, and of course the added chance of theft from people walking by and seeing I have a high dollar unit.

The old saying "To each his own" comes in to play here, and I firmly believe the people looking to upgrade components are in the very very very minority.

You bring up AUX inputs and if you think about it, why were they added?  Because with portable music there is a demand for them.  You also mention preamp outputs.  If there was a demand for them they would have been added a LONG time ago.  The automotive world is driven completely off of demand and features that people WANT.  Unfortunately, especially in higher end cars, 99.9% of the people arn't going to add a wall of 15s in the back!  :)

Oh, and if it makes you feel better, I posted in your thread!!!  I probably wasn't much help, but who knows.

Where did the second starter, part of this thread go? I talked with a friend of mine, (mobil mechanic, and certified) I gave him the "general" idea of what we were talking about. The cold start is OLD HAT....Nissan used to use, what were called cold start injectors. NOT related to a second start wire. The newer nissans, the second starter is used to "communicate" with the ECM, BCM, ECU....whatever you need to call it. It has NOTHING to do with the actual starter on the vehicle. It it used as a "data" wire, if you will. Wich makes secse...if you don't use it, the car WON"T start.

Thats all I know folks......... It's vague at best, but!